McCARROLL - GAFFIGAN Marriage, 1912. Where were the banns posted?

[jj.carroll]

AGNES BRIDGET GAFFIGAN was born and lived in San Francisco.  She was the daughter of John and Maggie (nee Crennan) GAFFIGAN, before she came to Ireland to marry my grandfather MICHAEL JOSEPH McCARROLL (sometimes known as Carroll, and it may have been his name in California).  He was of the Donacavey and Clogher civil parishes, County Tyrone. They had met in San Francisco - after Michael joined his two brothers.

Agnes B. left for Ireland when she reached majority. Instead of being married in the Fintona - Eskragh - Beragh area, where Michael's family lived and they later chose to settle (after residing in Omagh at least until 1914), they were wed at St. Patrick’s Church in Dundalk, County Louth. The problem is that we don't even know if they traveled together, or where in Ireland they had landed, or even where they stayed before they left for County Tyrone.

Mickey McCARROLL and Agnes Bridget GAFFIGAN went on to Omagh, and then to Fintona, where McCARROLL was to establish his business and became a publican/auctioneer/seller of shoes and coffins at their public house on Main Street in Fintona (the pub owned by the late Mr. Francis McAtee).

Michael and Agnes had a number of children, including my father: MICHAEL JOSEPH, b. 25 March 1914 in Omagh; PATRICK EUGENE, b. 1915, who passed away after three days; MARY CATHERINE (who became Maura when she migrated to the USA), 1917 and passed away in 2004; THOMAS LEO, b. 1918; BERNADETTE ANTHONY, b. 1919; and, KEVIN BARRY, b. 1921. All of these siblings had returned to the States in 1924 with their mother, after the passing of Michael Joseph McCarroll.

This has been a mystery to me (and perhaps a mystery to others in my family) but it does seem quite funny. The two of them went to Ireland to get married, and ended up in Dundalk - before the partition so that was not the reason. Dundalk would seem to be half way point to Dublin, but then why would they land, or at least, she would land there from the States when they would seem more likely to come ashore at Moville.

In those days marriage was strictly regulated for Catholics and while both were of the age, it raises a number of questions, such as why not Armagh, or the Clogher cathedral in Monaghan if they were not to be married around Fintona or Beragh?

And it would raise a question about the location of St. Patrick’s in Eskra, where Michael’s family resided. Michael's family appears to be closely associated with that chapel and now is a parish in its own right. What and how were the banns posted for this marriage? How long had they been in Ireland, and did they wait the requisite time?

And, they may have even traveled from America to Queenstown and instead of the trip overland in Ireland they went to Liverpool.  From there they may have made Dundalk their landing in Ireland.  While these unanswered questions may never be known one cannot expect any answers unless the questions are asked.

[Christopher]

Hiya jj.carroll,

You've posed some interesting questions. If they met in San Francisco why didn't they marry there? Why go to the trouble of returning to Ireland for their wedding when they had a number of relatives already in San Francisco? The round about route to get to Fintona, with a marriage en route in Dundalk, is a strange one.

I've linked this thread to your   McCARROLL family from the Eskra - Fintona - Beragh area thread.

Christopher

[jj.carroll]

You asked, If they met in San Francisco why didn't they marry there?  I suppose that this is a rhetorical question as I am unable to answer just why they did not stay in San Francisco, get married there, and have their children there.  Perhaps they did not like the earthquakes and fires.

They may have had a brother (Thomas who married Kitty Daley of Newtownsaville) in San Francisco, but the other brother Patrick (who was supposed to be a little crazy, but what the heck - he was Irish) went back and forth between Ireland and California, and very little is known of him.  The rest of the siblings, and the mother and father of the groom, were in Corkhill. 

Why did they not want to have the Gaffigans at their wedding?  Who really knows, but it may be that the strange behavior of John Amos Gaffigan drove them away (you need to know that the Gaffigans have created a problem in its own right, and will be found on other websites - just because he was born in Scotland.  And Mary Gaffigan did have two sisters, Anna and Izzy, that preceded her to San Francisco).  Or it may be that Mickey did not get along with John Amos.  Who knows, except for the Shadow?  As they say, Da Shadow do...)

Perhaps he suffered from something that we don't know about, or made his money in California and wanted to spend it where his family was (you must remember, the Man of the house was the king in those days).  Maybe, just maybe, someone in the McCusker family passed away and left a legacy for Mickey (he had a brother in law that also purchased a public house in Omagh about that time - and another brother in law purchased one about that same time in Curr).

The round-about route that they took (and we still don't know where they were at this time, even to the ship that they sailed upon) is indeed strange, but hopefully someone would have an answer to some of these questions - particularly, St. Patrick's in Dundalk where the banns had to be posted.

And, we don't know that they took the same route.  He was in Beragh before he got married - and nothing was said about both of them being there...

It may very well have been that he preceded her to his home in Ireland and Aggie B. being the strong-minded person that she was decided that she wanted to marry Mickey, and to hell with all of her crazy siblings and mother and dad.  (But she had to get the passage money?  Now where was that!)

This was the reason that I posted the query in the first place.  To see if there were more answers than there were questions.

[Christopher]

JJ,

Do you know the name of the priest who conducted the marriage service? When did  the marriage take place at St. Patrick’s Church in Dundalk? If you don't know the priest's name maybe the marriage was reported in a Dundalk paper. It's possible they wanted a specific person to conduct the service and for some reason had to go to his church.

Christopher 

[jj.carroll]

The only thing that I can go on is the marriage registration. 

All of the parties are deceased (and I am the oldest surviving one), and I just would like to unravel the whole mess.

It took place on 29 July 1912, and the parties were: Michael McCarroll, at full age, and his condition was Bachelor.  His rank or profession was Merchant, and the residence at the time of the marriage was Beragh (County Tyrone), and his father was Owen McCarroll, deceased.  His father was a farmer (from Corkhill, in Tyrone).  Agnes B. Gaffigan was full age and a spinster, from San Francisco.  Her father was John Gaffigan, and he was a painter (actually, a printer - but the certificate gives it as a painter which he dabbled in).

It took place in the Catholic Church of St. Patrick Dundalk (and I have been there many times trying to get someone to give me the time of day, but to no avail).  It was signed by R. Lyons, adm.  (I take it that he was a pastor, or chief priest of the congregation, not knowing the practices of the Irish).  The witnesses were John "Gregan" (and that is NOT Gaffigan, the "g" is reversed and there is only one), and Mary Margaret Hamill.

I contacted the Bishop who assisted in getting me to the Parish by way of the internet.  I have had a response, but must wait a while for the person who has either been sick is replaced or the archivist that does the history of St. Patrick's.  I have been persistent, knowing full well that it may be a useless task - but one that I will go to my grave trying to figure it out.  In fact, it is about time to bug them some more to see how the archivist is doing.

Actually, I don't think it has anything to do with your later remarks about a specific person because there was never anything said about that church. The names of the witnesses do not ring a bell, and I really had to work about the Gaffigan because her father was John Amos Gaffigan.  Had to find out by a search, and then I found the marriage registration that my father got in 1975.  Then I asked some questions, and while Aggie had already passed on, the answers from my aunt were unsatisfactory.  (And it did not happen in the Irish Free State, as it was in 1912!  Joshing you...)

[jj.carroll]

Tony posted this on another thread:

"... (By) the way, there was an Agnes Gaffigan who arrived at Queenstown, 26-july-1912,aged 23,aboard the White Star Line ship "Celtic".  Her occupation looks something like stenographer,the word ends with grapher anyway."

This may answer some of the problems we have had in trying to reconstruct my grandparents' background. 

I wonder, however, did she sail with Michael Joseph Carroll (as he was then known in America) or McCarroll, the name he was born with. 

Ship's manifests sometimes contain interesting things, like the derivation of the person giving his/her status.  In this case, Agnes Bridget Gaffigan (if she is the one we are searching for) was American-born, having come from San Francisco.  Michael was Irish-born and had taken American citizenship in San Francisco.

If this was Agnes and Mickey, they got married three days later up in Dundalk.

  Thanks Tony

[aberjed]

The banns of all marriages at this time would have been posted in the parish church of ireland ( anglican ) I believe, even for catholics

[jj.carroll]

While I do not know if the banns of marriage were posted in Anglican parishes, not at the Roman Catholic churches that they were parishioners of, I do believe that you may have somehow missed the mark on this one.

Mickey or Michael McCarroll was originally from the Eskra parish in County Tyrone.  He left for California around 1896, was naturalized as a U.S. citizen, and then returned to County Tyrone after his health failed him.  He left behind in San Francisco two brothers who had immigrated, and one remained.  He may have been in Beragh or Omagh, but he was to locate in Main Street in the town of Fintona, County Tyrone. 

Where was he a parishioner at the time of his marriage?  It wasn't Dundalk.

Agnes B. Gaffigan was born in San Francisco, California and never was a parishioner in Ireland before she was married. 

She either followed Michael Joseph Carroll or came over at the same time, on the same ship (but we can't locate a record of his sailing).  And we can't locate any definitive information on how they came to be in Dundalk.

But we do know that she landed in Queenstown (the name at that time) aboard the White Star line "Celtic", and she married Michael at St. Patrick's in Dundalk, County Louth, on July 29 1912.

While it may be that some banns were posted in Anglican Churches for Roman Catholics, I am not sure that this would be a fruitfull direction to turn to in locating how they married and if the banns for that marriage were posted.

[aberjed]

If banns were not issued , then a marriage could be held by licence 1836 act. This document only stated that a marriage was allowed to take place and was not usually kept. Usually the marriage certificate will say by licence or after banns.