Willam McGregor/Hancock 1834

[cire]

Hi Linda and Sheila
This is what I reckon!!!!
1) Maria ? marries Daniel McGregor date unknown.
2) They have a son James b. C.1830
3) Daniel dies?
4) Maria McGregor settles down!! with Simon Hancock.
5) They have 3 children Robert  (1830), William (1833) and Mary Ann (1833)
     twins??  They are baptised under the mother's name as the parents are
      not married, but as was quite common the father's name was used as a
     second forename.
6)  They then have at least 2 more children, Sarah b. 1835  & Maria b. 1837.
     These two are baptised under the father's surname with the mother's
      name attached as a second forename. Perhaps the parents had married.
      ( It might have been the way the baptisms were entered in the register)
7)  Maria dies, probably in childbirth. Burial date the same as the baptism of
      the youngest child.
  Simon Hancock lives as husband and wife with Rebecca, and the children
     of his relatioship with Maria. (1841 & 1851 Censuses)
9) Simon and Rebecca have some 6 children, including Gedling Hancock
     b. 1856.
10) A Simon Hancock married a Rebecca Coutts in 1854 in Radford (better late
      than never)

Meanwhile;
11) William Hancock Mc Gregor, (the son of Maria and Simon) marries
       Elizabeth Whittaker (1855)
12) William and Elizabeth had their first child Jane b. C.1858.
13)  Some 20 years later, Gedling Hancock marries Jane McGregor.


      And the rest is history!!
My family history program says Jane was Simon's grand daughter and also his daughter in law!!!!

Regards
Er
     

[elsie52]

Thank you Eric - that looks to be a good explanation as to why the names change so often. I shall print that off and have a long look at it all, you've done really well.

Only one question comes to mind - I have Emma McGregor born 1856 Sneinton, Nottingham as Williams eldest daughter. She married Herbert Jerram  born C1852 Derby and had three children - Herbert 1880, Mabel 1881 and Ethel 1882.

I have found her on the 1861 census RG9 2447 118 7

I am still hoping Sheila can find out when Daniel died on her trip to the library, and anything else about the family, just to be sure.

Thanks for all your efforts.

Linda

[Dizzifish]

Hello Linda & Eric,

Well…. I think you will agree a few surprises…..my findings do not help matters only opens things up for more questions!

Upton Baptisms – fiche 5, p30
8th August 1830
JAMES, son of  Daniel & Maria Macgregor.
Abode – Incorporated Workhouse, fathers profession – Labourer
R H Fowler, off’ min’
……….

Upton Baptisms – fiche 5, p42
23rd Oct 1831
ROBERT HANCOCK, son of  Maria Macgregor.
Abode- Incorporated Workhouse.
James Footitt, vicar.
……..

Upton Baptisms – fiche 5, p48
4th August 1833
WILLIAM HANCOCK & MARY ANN HANCOCK, Twin children of Maria McGregor.
Abode- Incorporated Workhouse. – Singlewoman.
R H Fowler, off’ min’
…………….

I am not sure if “Incorporated Workhouse” was the first beginnings of the Southwell Union Workhouse?
And Southwell Workhouse records are now online but only cover (1834 - 1871)
There is this reference to the Incorporated Workhouse at Upton at; http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/mss/online/online-mss-catalogues/cats/ne_3.html
Money was being collected from estates from as early as 1823? But why would Maria be there from at least 1830 and be residence in a workhouse and still manage to give birth to other children? Permanent resident or only pop in to give birth…..confused!

There is no burial for a Daniel Macgregor at Upton and none on the NFHS burial index., I did wonder if when Maria was asked ”fathers name?” , she gave the name of her own father?

I wonder if Maria Macgregor ever married Simon Hancock!?

Regards

Sheila…..and slightly more confused!

[elsie52]

Well Sheila, the saga continues! I must admit to never knowing about the Southwell Workhouse. Now I've had a look on the website I see it is very well known.

I, like you, am now wondering what Maria was doing there. Did she fall on hard times? Would it possible that she worked there is some capacity?

As there doesn't seem to be a trace of Daniel McGregor, it makes me think maybe he just left or changed his name...... perhaps we'll never get to the bottom of it.

Thank you very much for taking the time to look things up for me. You're a star

Regards
Linda

[cire]

Hi Linda,
I hadn't picked up a daughter older than Jane. I only picked her up because she was married but living with her father in the 1881 census. No husband is listed. In fact I can't find Gedling in the 1881 census. Also Gedling and Jane appear to have had 3 children up to 1881 (one of them another Gedling died shortly after birth) and then as far as I can see no more children until 1889. Another puzzle ---Where was he for about 8 years? The family are there in 1891 and 1901.

The workhouse in Southwell appears to have been built from 1824, but when the new Poor Laws came into operation in 1834 Daniel disappears. IHe was a labourer and with a name like that possibly came from Scotland. I don't think he is really important in your family, it would be a lot more use if we could find more about Simon Hancock and where or how he met Maria. Did he sweep the chimneys at the workhouse?

Regards
Eric

[elsie52]

Thanks for your thoughts Eric,

I had picked up on that eight year gap and wondered if there were any significant events at the time - a soldier maybe - although eight years is maybe too long.

I am very fortunate that a second cousin has sent me copies of the birth cert. baptism cert. and marriage cert. for Emma McGregor. He has been researching the Pigott side of our family, which is his branch.

It would appear that Elizabeth McGregor couldn't write ( quite common at that time I should think) as the birth certificate says - 'X The mark of Elizabeth McGregor'. They were living in Paradise Street, Nottingham.

I agree it would be interesting to find more about Simon. I'll see if there are any matches on Genes Reunited for him.

Kind regards,
Linda

[elsie52]

Had a quick look and he's in someone elses tree that I have access to through Williams Grandaughter, Claira McGregor (I've got that as Clara). They have got Simon as being born in Sheffield, but the 1851 census that Sheila found says Manchester, so that must be right.

There's no mention of Daniel on their family tree at all.

I like the idea that they met because he swept the chimneys - I don't suppose we'll ever know.


Regards Linda

[cire]

Hi Linda

Simon Hancock  birthplace     1841 says  not born in county
                                              1861 says  Sheffield
I think he is probably the Simon Hancock whose death was registered Dec Q. 1862 in Nottingham

In the 1841 census the children that were Maria's, living with Simon and Rebecca are shown as "not born in county"!!!!!!!

Regards
Eric

This probably doesn't add much to what you know but  if you go to the HIstoric Directories web site there are refs to Hancock chimney-sweepers  in the Wrights directories for Nottingham  1858 and 1894-95

[Dizzifish]

Hi Linda & Eric,

Just before I run out of steam on this one….

It was something Eric said about knowing more about Simon Hancock and other things I came across while looking previously that hadn’t been mentioned.

As far as I can tell there were only two Simon Hancocks in total showing up on the 1851.

Looks like Simon Hancock Snr died in 1862 as I didn’t find him in 1871
Deaths DecQ 1862   
Hancock  Simon    Nottingham  7b 151
……………….

On the 1871 – Gedling Hancock is transcribed as HUNCOCK!

1871 = RG10; Piece: 3530; Folio: 15; Page: 23, Harvey’s Row Nottingham
Joseph Cutts, Head, marr, age 43, Labourer, born Kimberley Nott’s
Emma Cutts, wife, age 33. born Flintham, Notts.
William Cutts, son, age 10, born Radford
Sarah Ann Cutts, dau, age 8, born Radford
Fanny Cutts, dau, age 5, born Ilkeston.
John Cutts, son, age 1, born Nottingham.
GEDLING HANCOCK, Brother in Law, age 15, Winder, born Radford.
……………………….

We know that Simon Hancock married Rebecca Cutts in Radford in 1854, so why would Gedling be described as Brother in Law to Joseph Cutts? In today’s terms would probably be described as step-brother?

Although on the census it says that Joseph Cutts was born in Kimberley, which he probably was, but I think he was baptised in Radford;

Radford St Peter – 5th Dec 1830
JOSEPH CUTTS, mother Rebecca, occupation Lace Runner, abode Radford.

You can find Joseph with his grandparents William & Elizabeth Cutts on the 1841
1841 = HO107/ 860/ 10, Strettons? Yard - Radford,: Nottinghamshire
Joseph Cutts aged 10 is with his Grandparents William & Elizabeth Cutts

 And the 1851;
1851 = HO107; Piece: 2129; Folio: 383; Page: 33 – Westone? Road, Radford.
WILLIAM CUTTS, Head, Marr, aged 78, Ag Lab, born Arnold, Nott’s.
Elizabeth Cutts, Wife, age 76, born Draycott, Derbys.
JOSEPH CUTTS, Grandson, Un, aged 20. Collier, born Kimberley, Notts.

There were five children born to William & Elizabeth Cutts at Radford St Peter, one of which is;
REBECCA CUTTS – 18th Oct 1812 , baptised 25th April 1852  - fathers Occ Labourer, abode Radford.
………

There are two other marriages for a Simon Hancock; one was to Sarah Day in 1864 (Radford Christ Church)
And this one - Nottingham St Mary – 26th April 1819
SIMON HANCOCK & ANN TOWLE

Whether that Simon Hancock is one and the same? And there is no burial for any on the NFHS index.

I hope you do find some more information about this family, Simon Hancock is intriguing and Maria and Rebecca had a lot in common!

Best Wishes

Sheila.