Elizabeth Willis

[FrouFrou]

Can anyone tell me what I should do next? Having failed to find my ggrandmother Elizabeth Willis b.c1870 Islington birth certificate, I bought 6 certificates and none fit the bill. On her marriage cerificate to Alexander Turpie in 1896, she gives David Willis a painoforte maker dead! One of the witnesses was a William Deas and sure enough I found her in 1881 an 11year scholar, 1891 an upholsterer living with a Janet Deas b. 1826 Edinburgh, widow of David Deas (1861) Janet is in Camden Town, a William Deas is in Leytonstone b 1835 Edinburgh Scotland - pianoforte maker, possible brother? The 1871 census totally throws me. I found a Mary Ann Willis and little Elizabeth Willis 1 year in Somers Town but then an Elizabeth Carter Deas 11/12 months a daughter living with Janet Deas. Help!

[patrish]

Hi FrouFrou and welcome to Rootschat.



RG10/221/72/53

5 Chalton St. St. Pancras

Mary Ann Willis 25 married Seamstress b Middx, London

Elizabeth Willis dau 1

I cannot see the others you mention there.

[Ecneps]

Hi FrouFrou,  welcome to rootschat 

Just trying to unscramble this a bit -

do you mean because you found Elizabeth Willis living with Janet Deas in 1891 that she has to be the same child as the one living with her in 1871, or just puzzled that Janet Deas had a child in 1871 while a widow?  And do you think David Deas and David Willis are the same person?

Also, just because Wm Deas and David Willis were piano makers doesn't necessarily make them related, maybe just friends or colleagues.  Please could you post the census references where you found them all, to make it easier to look them all up and we'll try to sort it out for you!

Barbara   

[FrouFrou]

Thank you so much for your replies.  The references are:
1861 RG9 p116 f55 p31
1871 RG10 p232 f24 p41
1881 RG11 p207 f36 p19
1891 RG12 p130 f26 p46
I started looking at Deas after no success with birth certificate for Elizabeth. The William Deas witness at marriage 1896 could be any of many living in London. But the 1881/1891 deffintely seem to be her. I sent for one of 4 Elizabeth Carters b.cert but it doesn't match anything. I know you shouldn't imagine what happened, but my first reaction was, it is the David (child of Janet) and a Mary Ann Willis.(1871). Mary died and David's mother Janet took baby in! The William in Leyton could be Janet's brother, possibly the piano twist... So frustrating..His baby given to his sister? What is the Carter relation in 1871? Any thoughts?
thank you.

[Ecneps]

Hi FrouFrou,

When you first start family history, it's easy to get carried away with what might or might not have been!  Boring as it may sound, the best way to start is with what you definitely know and work slowly backwards, and try not to get sidetracked.  When you send for certificates, if you ask the local register office they can usually confirm it's the one you're looking for before you pay for it.  If you order from the GRO there's a charge for checking, but it can still be done (although some of us still get it wrong).

I'll look at the census and see what I can sort out...starting with the only two things you know for sure, Mary Ann b. abt 1870 Islington (from 1901 census) and David, a piano maker......... back soon,

Barbara 

[FrouFrou]

Thank you so much for your interest. Elizabeth Willis was born c1870 Islington from 1901 census in Childs Hill. I'm not sure who her mother is. Mary Ann Willis is the potential finding in 1871. My ggrandmother Elizabeth died 24.8. 1944 and the death certificate states age 73.
frou

[Ecneps]

Hi Frou,

Still working my way through census, I was looking for David Willis but not much luck, chased up the few I found but none were piano makers and I looked at marriages and then census but any spare Davids checked out in later census.  Wondering when he died, his death cert would help if it showed his widow's name and his age.  I see Mary Ann Willis in 1871 is still married even though husband not present.  There's a death for a David Willis aged 44 in March Qu 1881 St.Giles 1b 409 which could be the one, can't see any others.  You could maybe check with the registrars for his occupation before you bought it.

The Deas look promising, although David Deas was a lithographer, two of his sons John & James were Piano Makers in 1881.  In 1851 David was married to Harriet (unless a mistake for Janet) both born Edinburgh or Midlothian, orperhaps he married twice.  Can't find the marriage in England, you may have to post a request on the Scottish Board for that in case they married there, or look for it on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk - just to see if Janet was a Willis in a former life!  If she's his 2nd wife the marriage should have been in England but can't find it.

Have you tried to track Mary Ann Willis in census/deaths after 1871?  Where was she when little Lizzie was with the Deas?

That's it for tonight, hope it helps a little,
Barbara

[FrouFrou]

Thank you again so much for your help. I have spent many many months searching the census. Elizabeth Willis is SUCH a common name, hence the conjecture crept in. I did find marriage of David Deas and a Janet Fraser 17.12.1849 Edinburgh Parish. Her father was a John Fraser. They must have come to London 1848-1850. I will send for David death cert. I get certs from GRO on line. They charge £3.00 for checking anything!!I know it must be my Elizabeth Willis in 1881/1891. I have found so many David Willis' too! Alexander Turpie's grandfather was Alexander, a bird stuffer! His father  Joseph and siblings were born around St Anne's Soho. Bang in St Anne's Soho is a Willis family with a David also a bird stuffer. Then you find another family Willis, coal dealers. I must take your advise and stick to facts. I shall also send for a cert for death of a Mary Ann Willis O-D 1869 Marylebone 1a 522. ~Could she have died having Elizabeth?? Sigh.....I am so grateful. Frou

[FrouFrou]

Somthing keeps bothering me, so many of our relatives told lies!! Could her father's profession have been an embarrassment? The pianoforte maker connection is certainly related to the Deas family. Frou