Author Topic: BELGIUM: Trying find a BAGGE Ancestor in born in Belgium  (Read 5445 times)

Offline Laura

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BELGIUM: Trying find a BAGGE Ancestor in born in Belgium
« on: Thursday 16 December 04 10:53 GMT (UK) »
Hi

I wondered  if anybody knows how i can trace an ancestor in Belgium, the only info i have is he is

Richard Ludwig Bagge
B about 1873 in (B S) Belgium
I have him in the 1881 census as a boarder in The Rectory, Gaywood, Norfolk.

I am trying to trace parents and when he came here?

Thank you for your help!!
Burtenshaw, Cumming, Wilson, Mellor, Hogg, Potter

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Offline Geoff of Devon

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Re: Trying find an Ancestor in born in Belgium
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 16 December 04 11:27 GMT (UK) »
Hi Laura,

I used to live in Belgium for many years. I have sent an email to a Flemish friend who may be able to at least give advice on where to look. I think B S stands for British Subject?  Remember Belgium is split into two very distinct parts. Walloonia and Flanders, one French speaking and one Flemish (don't call it Dutch!) speaking. Everything is done in a completely different manner in each part!!!

From his name I would have thought him Flemish, but you never know.

Lol,
Geoff.
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Offline Laura

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Re: Trying find an Ancestor in born in Belgium
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 16 December 04 11:31 GMT (UK) »
Thanx Geoff thats very kind of you, I will await ur reply.

Thanx again

Laura x
Burtenshaw, Cumming, Wilson, Mellor, Hogg, Potter

Offline Geoff of Devon

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Re: Trying find an Ancestor in born in Belgium
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 16 December 04 11:33 GMT (UK) »
Do you have any more info on Richard Ludwig? Like where in Belgium he was from....was he married before he came over....had he had any children .....

Lol,
Geoff.
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Offline Geoff of Devon

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Re: Trying find an Ancestor in born in Belgium
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 16 December 04 11:44 GMT (UK) »
Could this have been a relation, who was English and played cricket???

http://www.cricketarchive.com/Archive/Players/36/36257/36257.html

Richard Bagge
Full name: Richard Bagge
Born: 17th June 1810, Stradsett Hall, Norfolk, England
Died: 5th April 1891, Gaywood Hall, Norfolk, England
Relations: Son: TE Bagge; Twin brother: W Bagge
Teams: Norfolk (Main FC: 1836)

Career Statistics:
FIRST-CLASS
 (1836 - 1836)
                      M    I  NO  Runs   HS     Ave 100  50   Ct  St
Batting & Fielding    2    4   0     6    4    1.50   0   0    2   0

                      O      M     R    W    Ave   BBI    5  10    SR  Econ
Bowling               -      -     -    -    -     -      -   -    -    -


Full name: Thomas Edward Bagge
Born: 30th April 1838, Gaywood Hall, Norfolk, England
Died: 23rd October 1908, Gaywood Hall, Norfolk, England
Relations: Father: R Bagge; Uncle: W Bagge
Teams: Cambridge University (Main FC: 1859-1861); Marylebone Cricket Club (Main FC: 1862); All teams
Lists of matches and more detailed statistics

First-Class Career Batting and Fielding (1859-1862)
 M I NO Runs HS Ave 100 50 Ct
Overall 13 21 1 449 81 22.45  0 3 8 
First-Class Career Bowling (1859-1862)
 Runs Wkts BB Ave 5wI 10wM
Overall 0 1 1-? 0.00  0 0

Full name: William Bagge
Born: 17th June 1810, Stradsett Hall, Norfolk, England
Died: 12th February 1880, Stradsett, Norfolk, England
Relations: Nephew: TE Bagge; Twin brother: R Bagge
Teams: Norfolk (Main FC: 1836); Marylebone Cricket Club (Main FC: 1839)
Lists of matches and more detailed statistics

First-Class Career Batting and Fielding (1836-1839)
 M I NO Runs HS Ave 100 50 Ct
Overall 4 7 1 7 4 1.16  0 0 2 
First-Class Career Bowling (1836-1839)
 Runs Wkts BB Ave 5wI 10wM
Overall 0 1 1-? 0.00  0 0

I would therefore suppose that Richard Ludwig was PROBABLY just born in Belgium, but was actually really British!

Geoff.
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Offline Laura

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Re: Trying find an Ancestor in born in Belgium
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 16 December 04 11:55 GMT (UK) »
Hi

He must have come over before the age of 8 as he is in the 1881 census  and in the 1891 census he is with living his aunty Jane Bagge and cousins.

But i cant seem to find any parents, It looks like mab i will have to order a birth cert?

Thanx

Laura
Burtenshaw, Cumming, Wilson, Mellor, Hogg, Potter

Offline Geoff of Devon

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Re: Trying find an Ancestor in born in Belgium
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 16 December 04 11:57 GMT (UK) »
Here is your long line of Bagge! They were publicans (and cricketers) at the "Valiant Sailor" and "Red Cow" in King's Lynn. No Belgians at all!  ;D
http://www.norfolkpubs.co.uk/kingslynn/vkingslynn/klvas.htm
http://www.norfolkpubs.co.uk/kingslynn/rkingslynn/klrco.htm

Sorry, I see that I am repeating Berlin-Bob!

Here is a more famous Sir Richard Ludwig Bagge who MUST be an ancestor!
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/f/r/e/Alan-G-Freer/ODT8-0106.html

16  [1012] Ralph Leigh Hare  b: 1903    d: 1976    Fact 2: Sir, 4th Bt.
  +[1763] Doreen Pleasance Anna Bagge    m: 1928      Fact 2: d.of Maj. Sir Richard Ludwig Bagge D.S.O.

There are quite a few Bagge in Norfolk on FreeBMD
These would probably be related!
Births Jun 1890 Bagge  Edith Ellen     King's L  4b 845
Deaths Mar 1895 Bagge  Edith Ellen  4  King's L  4b 249
Marriages Sep 1889 BAGGE  Alfred Henry     King's L.  4b 557
Folker  Emma Astaler F J     Kings Lynn  4b 557   OR Mason  Charlotte Christina     Kings Lynn  4b 557
Deaths Jun 1900 Bagge  John William  0  King's L.  4b 223
Deaths Sep 1905 BAGGE  Walter  1  King's L.  4b 185

Have a quick look at 1837online for Richard Ludwig?

Here is the cricketing Richard's death and some probable rellies....
Deaths Jun 1891 Bagge  Richard  80  Freebridge L.  4b 253
Deaths Sep 1881 Bagge  Francis  49  Freebridge L.  4b 201
Deaths Mar 1882 BAGGE  Sarah  90  Freebridge Lynn  4b 235
Deaths Mar 1900 Bagge  Harriett  71  Freebridge L.  4b 302
Births Sep 1843 BAGGE  Herbert     Freebridge Lin  13 131
Births Sep 1845 Bagge  Louisa Clifford     Freebridge Lynn  13 149
Births Mar 1838 Bagge  John     Presbridge(?) Lynn  13 141

Definitely get the certs! It's the only way to be 100%. I usually just wait until I'm 85%+ sure before I splash the cash.
Geoff.
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Offline Laura

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Re: Trying find an Ancestor in born in Belgium
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 16 December 04 12:31 GMT (UK) »
Thanx very much Geoff for your time and effort

Laura x
Burtenshaw, Cumming, Wilson, Mellor, Hogg, Potter

Offline Geoff of Devon

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Re: Trying find an Ancestor in born in Belgium
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 16 December 04 12:33 GMT (UK) »
I think Richard Ludwig's father must have been Thomas Edward.
Here is T E Bagge marriage ref:
Marriages Sep 1871 BAGGE  Thomas Edward     Docking  4b 553
TO EITHER
Keppel  Louisa Maria M     Docking  4b 553  
OR
SANDS  Priscilla     Docking  4b 553

The name Keppel sounds Belgian!!!

And this MIGHT be his death:
Deaths Mar 1908 Bagge  Thomas  69  Brentford  3a 134

Thomas does NOT appear in the 1881 census!!!!
Here is grandfather Richard, who is a Judge....
Household:
 Name  Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
 Richard BAGGE   Head   W   Male   70   Stradsett, Norfolk, England   D L J P    
 Richard S. BAGGE   Son   U   Male   44   Lynn, Norfolk, England   J P    
 Jane M. BAGGE   Daur   U   Female   38   Lynn, Norfolk, England        
 Louisa C. BAGGE   Daur   U   Female   35   Gaywood, Norfolk, England        
 David FRANCIS   Servant   U   Male   35   Hemel Hempsted, Hertford, England   Butler    
 Miles BARKER   Servant   U   Male   20   Spalding, Lincoln, England   Footman    
 George M. FLEMMING   Servant   U   Male   44   Kettering, Northampton, England   Invalid Attendant (Sub...)    
 William G. PARMENTER   Servant   U   Male   20   Deptford, Kent, England   Invalid Attendant    
 William T. CLARK   Servant   U   Male   21   Wakefield, York, England   Groom (Dom)    
 Agnes MAYES   Servant   W   Female   41   Gressenhall, Norfolk, England   Cook Housekeeper    
 Harriet LING   Servant   U   Female   26   Knoddishall, Suffolk, England   Ladysmaid Domestic Ser    
 Sarah JOHNSON   Servant   U   Female   33   Swaffham, Norfolk, England   Housemaid Domestic Servant    
 Anna EARLE   Servant   U   Female   25   Colteshall, Norfolk, England   Housemaid Domestic Servant    
 Susannah HOLT   Servant   U   Female   19   Middleton, Norfolk, England   Kitchenmaid Domestic Servant    
 Clara ROLFE   Servant   U   Female   19   Ousden, Suffolk, England   Dairymaid Domestic Servant (Ag)    
Source Information:
  Dwelling   Gaywood Hall
  Census Place Gaywood, Norfolk, England
  Family History Library Film   1341480
  Public Records Office Reference   RG11
  Piece / Folio   1996 / 6
  Page Number   5

RICHARD BAGGE 
  Male   Family
Marriages:
  Spouse:  PLEASANCE HULTON  Family
  Marriage:  01 OCT 1835   North Runcton, Norfolk, England

THOMAS PHILLIP BAGGE 
  Male   Family
Marriages:
  Spouse:  GRACE SALISBURY  Family
  Marriage:  28 APR 1808   St Margaret, Kings Lynn, Norfolk, England
 
RICHARD BAGGE 
  Male   Family
 Marriages:
  Spouse:  MARGARET COE  Family
  Marriage:  23 OCT 1724   Gaywood, Norfolk, England
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