Author Topic: Tinker = Romany??  (Read 51632 times)

Offline rebekahm28

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Re: Tinker = Romany??
« Reply #18 on: Thursday 24 January 08 20:51 GMT (UK) »
I believe in the old ways, a true Romany would be dark.  Tinkers were/are Irish, and dont have the history or cultural heritage of Romany.  And they speak Cant, wheras we speak Romanes.
Casaubon (Geneva, London), Daulinge, Berners, McMullen (Nottingham), Tabb (Leics), Mycock (Derbys & Staffs), Gilbert (Notts), Price (s Wales), Krilovs/similar, gypsy Roberts, gypsy Clark, Bexell (Sussex), gypsy Elliott, Raven, Neligan (Co Kerry), Rymer, Newton (Hull).

Offline I forget

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Re: Tinker = Romany??
« Reply #19 on: Sunday 16 March 08 17:06 GMT (UK) »
Hi there,

I hope you don't mind me giving my 2p worth on the 'Tinker/Romany' question.

IMHO the way the travelling people were recorded as 'Hawkers, Tinkers' etc, bears no relation to what sort of Travelling people they were.  The only thing it tells you is that they were travellers. 

As has been said, the Romany peoples did tend to marry within their 'own kind' so the clues may lay within your ancestors names, but also if you can speak to older members of the family and find out whether there were any Romany speakers.  Also their darker appearance may be a clue. 

On looking at the photos of my mums side the Harris's were all quite short in stature, dark haired and brown eyed.  Where-as my grandfather has blue eyes and was always referred to as a 'showman' not a gypsy (though as a 'general dealer or hawker' in official documents), so I suspect there may be Irish or similar on that side, but I don't know.   

My mother always said that the travelling communities had a 'class' system almost like house dwellers and that Romanies were the 'top'.  And true gypsies spoke Romany. 

However, she never lived on the road,  so I don't know how true what she said was.  It was certainly what she was told and experienced when she visied relatives living in vans on various sites.

Good luck with your search
cindy
LANCASHIRE: Briscoe, Taylor, Hamilton, Cutts, Mousdell, Dixon, Fairclough, Dingle, Pennington, Ingham, Martin, Pinnington, Haselden, Molyneux
CHESHIRE/DENBEIGHSHIRE: Briscoe, Gibson, Tudor

SCOTLAND: Hunt, Murray, Docherty, Malley, Cameron, Colman, Middleton, Mason, Drummond, Gourdale, Fraser

East Anglia/East Midlands/Traveller: Harris, Gray, Thorpe, Sherratt, Sly, (Twigdon, Fendick, Clarke) Jackson, Rowe

Offline rebekahm28

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Re: Tinker = Romany??
« Reply #20 on: Sunday 16 March 08 19:01 GMT (UK) »
Thats true Cindy, and that class system still applies today.  I know some people may not agree with it, but most Romany folki have quiet lives and bother no-one; so when a lot of trouble has been caused by other 'gypsies', Romany folk hate getting the blame.  The gorja's (non gypsies) and especially the newspapers lump all travellers together.
Casaubon (Geneva, London), Daulinge, Berners, McMullen (Nottingham), Tabb (Leics), Mycock (Derbys & Staffs), Gilbert (Notts), Price (s Wales), Krilovs/similar, gypsy Roberts, gypsy Clark, Bexell (Sussex), gypsy Elliott, Raven, Neligan (Co Kerry), Rymer, Newton (Hull).


Offline ROMANYGENES

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Re: Tinker = Romany??
« Reply #21 on: Monday 17 March 08 12:03 GMT (UK) »
:) For reference the books referred to , can be found in several Libraries all of which are public ? just Google them.

Offline social-butterflies

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Re: Tinker = Romany??
« Reply #22 on: Wednesday 19 March 08 19:42 GMT (UK) »
evening to all,
thought i to would add my bit!!!!
yes indeed, (*) books are on sale again through romany genes ( a fantastic site, full of great info, photos and quick wit with fellow travellers/romany ancestors/descendants.) i have just ordered the books and they are really informative. they have been a real help to me as i have alot of mixed romany's in my tree.
as to the ''class system'', my nan always said there was a difference between ''real romany's'' and the irish travellers. all my family spoke ''the lingo'' as my old nan would call it but through the generations we have spoke it less and less. although us girlies always use it when we are out and we dont want others to hear...not that we know that much. not like our ancestors.
in our family we have a mixture, so to speak. most dark haired, dark eyed and quite a few with ''curly''. while the others are blonde and blue eyed but alot are short, no point saying stout or anything else, they are short. plain and simple. !! LOL. ;D
and i agree with the families marrying their own kind, most of my ancestors were cousins. seems odd but was the norm for all of them. :-\
amanda


(*) Moderator Comment:  References to a living person removed at that person's request.
buckley
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boswell (shadrack line)
pearse
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smith (inc epping forest)
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Offline honey-roma88

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Re: Tinker = Romany??
« Reply #23 on: Wednesday 19 March 08 20:22 GMT (UK) »
I believe in the old ways, a true Romany would be dark.  Tinkers were/are Irish, and dont have the history or cultural heritage of Romany.  And they speak Cant, wheras we speak Romanes.

My Romany ancestors were predominantly VERY dark. This is my gg grandmother's sister Charlotte Putland (with her non-Romani husband Johnny Holland) who is just a bit more than half Romany, all her siblings were just as dark.

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t226/honeysett88/00001.jpg

My mum and dad got their blood tested recently and my mother was 1/6th pure Indian, 30something percent south-eastern european, 40something percent northern european, and a little native American (which is pretty obvious when you look at certain family members but how it got there is beyond me since we are English - although those particular ancestors are from port areas). My dad was 40something percent southeastern european, 30something percent northern european and a 10th Indian. Both were about 10% Middle Eastern.

My mum has a skin condition which they say is from south-eastern european blood, she also has a ridge along the back of her skull (as does my father's mother) which is called the Anatolian ridge I think which also suggest Turkish blood.

My father's mother nicknamed Blackie as a baby
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t226/honeysett88/00001-1.jpg

My great, great grandmother
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t226/honeysett88/00002.jpg

My sister
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t226/honeysett88/00004.jpg

My great, great grandfather
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t226/honeysett88/00001-3.jpg

My great grandfather
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t226/honeysett88/00001-2.jpg

My great, great grandfather
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t226/honeysett88/00011.jpg

I think the wide, flat cheekbones are another feature of Romany-blooded folk. Bizarrely a lot of my Romany ancestors had no eyebrows...I think that is just a family quirk though.  ;D
Romany/Traveller:
BLACKMAN, BUCKLAND, BURGESS, DIX, DOBSON, FOLEY, GRANT/PARKER, HUNT, JONES, MUNDAY/MONDAY, MORGAN, NOYELL, ORCHARD, PAGE, REED, VINCENT

Jewish:
BRAHAM, FROST, LYONS

French:
HONEYSETT, LEVETT PETTIT

English:
BELSHAW, BETTSWORTH, CANE, COVENTRY, DOBSON, FRY,  NURSE, POOK, PUTLAND, PUTT, SMITH, SNELGROVE, TEE, TUDGAY, VENUS/VENESS

Irish:
ANDERSON, KILLOUGH, MACCORMACK, MACROBERTS, MORTON, MOORE, WALLACE

Offline social-butterflies

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Re: Tinker = Romany??
« Reply #24 on: Wednesday 19 March 08 20:39 GMT (UK) »
hello honey-roma 88
how lucky are you to have all those wonderful photos. :)
they all had eyebrows!!!lol.
but you can see how lovely and dark their hair/eyes are. i bet they had beautiful olive coloured skin.?
a.
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Offline honey-roma88

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Re: Tinker = Romany??
« Reply #25 on: Wednesday 19 March 08 20:43 GMT (UK) »
hello honey-roma 88
how lucky are you to have all those wonderful photos. :)
they all had eyebrows!!!lol.
but you can see how lovely and dark their hair/eyes are. i bet they had beautiful olive coloured skin.?
a.

Ha! yes most of them did...Jane in my avatar photo didn't and neither did Cecil. Julia Putland definitely had olive skin (my gg grandmother) and my grandmother always said her hair was almost blue-black although you can't see that in photos.

It looks like that have tried to draw Cecil some eyebrows in this one. ;D
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t226/honeysett88/00001-4.jpg


Romany/Traveller:
BLACKMAN, BUCKLAND, BURGESS, DIX, DOBSON, FOLEY, GRANT/PARKER, HUNT, JONES, MUNDAY/MONDAY, MORGAN, NOYELL, ORCHARD, PAGE, REED, VINCENT

Jewish:
BRAHAM, FROST, LYONS

French:
HONEYSETT, LEVETT PETTIT

English:
BELSHAW, BETTSWORTH, CANE, COVENTRY, DOBSON, FRY,  NURSE, POOK, PUTLAND, PUTT, SMITH, SNELGROVE, TEE, TUDGAY, VENUS/VENESS

Irish:
ANDERSON, KILLOUGH, MACCORMACK, MACROBERTS, MORTON, MOORE, WALLACE

Offline social-butterflies

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Re: Tinker = Romany??
« Reply #26 on: Wednesday 19 March 08 20:53 GMT (UK) »
see what you mean  ;)
nothing like family to put a smile on your face.!! however its done.
a.
buckley
webb
boswell (shadrack line)
pearse
lee
smith (inc epping forest)
heron
bibby