Author Topic: TRUE LONDONERS - can we use such a phrase about our families...?  (Read 10879 times)

Offline Keith Sherwood

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,908
  • The grass covers and the rain effaces. Victor Hugo
    • View Profile
TRUE LONDONERS - can we use such a phrase about our families...?
« on: Sunday 28 October 07 11:10 GMT (UK) »
Hi, Everyone,
The extra hour in bed this morning (Clocks going back an hour, I mean, here in England) got me thinking about how London I feel about my family. On my maternal side I suddenly realised that gt-gt-gt-grandmother Alice COCKER was born in Derbyshire in 1806/7; gt-gt-gt-grandpa James KERSHAW born in Lancashire in 1803; gt-gt-gt-grandpa Henry Pakeman GURNER was born in Cambs in 1796;and gt-gt-gt-grandma Mary Ann WHITE was born in Pembrokeshire, Wales in 1795. Yet from the 1820's/1830's onwards both merged-by-marriage families were living in London, as was the case from thereon. Thus I always felt as if London was in my family's blood. I've always supported Arsenal football club with a clear conscience that this was my "home town team".
There was of course an extraordinary migration to London from all parts of the British Isles from the late 18thC through to the 19thC.
The only phrase that definitely rings true is: "Permanent Londoners", which is an amusing one given to a book by Judi Culbertson and Tom Randall published in 1991 by Robson Books describing the permanent inhabitants of London's Churchyards and Cemeteries...
So, who feels a true Londoner, through and through?
keith
P.S. Thinking about this further, still on my mother's side, two more 3-times-gt-grandparents Richard HULLAND, b. 1795 in Devon and Mary Smith b. 1804 Lincs can also be thrown into the mix. Can't help but imagine all these six direct ancestors travelling to London (either on their own or with their families) some time between the 1790's and the 1830's and getting married to one another in 3 London marriages in 1821, 1826 and 1831...

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline Keith Sherwood

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,908
  • The grass covers and the rain effaces. Victor Hugo
    • View Profile
Re: TRUE LONDONERS - can we use such a phrase about our families...?
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 10 October 09 13:04 BST (UK) »
Hi again, Everyone,
Nearly two years on, and this post is being consigned to the Completed Requests.  More like "Incomplete Requests", does anyone have any 2009 thoughts about this topic now, before it sinks into oblivion once more...
regards. keith

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline Berlin-Bob

  • Caretaker
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ********
  • Posts: 7,442
    • View Profile
Re: TRUE LONDONERS - can we use such a phrase about our families...?
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 10 October 09 13:13 BST (UK) »
Hi Keith,

the problem here is that is not limited to Londoners.
The title would need to be changed to
TRUE XXXXers - can we use such a phrase about our families...?
where XXXX would then be any part of any country.
or
How long do you have to be in the XXXX community before you are considered a "native" ?

For instance, how long before imigrants in any country are recognised as citizens of that country - and I don't mean the 'official' recognition (naturalisation docs. etc) but acceptance by the local community.


Just in case anyone feels like joining in, I'll move this to the "Lighter Side".

Bob
Any UK Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)

My research interests (and data found) can be seen on my website:   http://www.margulies-chronicles.com/

Offline Keith Sherwood

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,908
  • The grass covers and the rain effaces. Victor Hugo
    • View Profile
Re: TRUE LONDONERS - can we use such a phrase about our families...?
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 10 October 09 14:01 BST (UK) »
Thanks for that, Bob,
We'll see whether it gets any bites now...
keith

Offline muttly

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 89
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: TRUE LONDONERS - can we use such a phrase about our families...?
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 10 October 09 14:13 BST (UK) »
 This is a super topic Berlin-Bob,,  I'm surprised it sat idle for so long!
Although I've discovered I'm not as "cockney" as I thought !  I am still thinking of myself as a true Londoner.  If I give up on the only fact I know to be correct, [that I was born there] I would be even more confused about  my identity !!! :)
The more I find about my ancestors makes me wish they had given DNA as part of the census!
I haven't worked out how to put happy faces on yet. but if I had I would have used many happy ones!

Offline Keith Sherwood

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,908
  • The grass covers and the rain effaces. Victor Hugo
    • View Profile
Re: TRUE LONDONERS - can we use such a phrase about our families...?
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 10 October 09 14:41 BST (UK) »
Another thing I've noticed is that whenever I've traced back families that appeared to remain in London (i.e. all the generations I've looked are born in the London or Middlesex area), I usually end up losing trace of them some time in the 18thC, as the various parishes are often very difficult to sort out clearly; whereas families originating from rural parishes often offer a clearer picture in earlier times - back to the 16thC, I mean...
keith

Offline geniecolgan

  • Deceased Rest In Peace
  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ********
  • Posts: 1,344
    • View Profile
Re: TRUE LONDONERS - can we use such a phrase about our families...?
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 10 October 09 20:05 BST (UK) »
Hi Kieth,

I identify myself as a Londoner, even though I haven't lived there for many years, the London sound can still be heard in my accent.
I was born there, my mother was born there, as was her father and his father (all from Middlesex).
My father's side migrated to the Metropolis in the 19th century, from Herts. and Ireland but they all made a living on the streets of London as laundresses, butchers, bakers, coppers and costermungers (where else would you find a costermunger)? ;D

I've watched the Thames tides, worked in a street market and breathed REAL smog.

Yes, I'm a Londoner ;D
"All UK census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk"

Offline Jean McGurn

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,065
    • View Profile
Re: TRUE LONDONERS - can we use such a phrase about our families...?
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 11 October 09 07:37 BST (UK) »
Quote
How long do you have to be in the XXXX community before you are considered a "native" ?

Down here in West Sussex I was once told by a villager that one had to reside there for 30 years before they were consisdered local. Well I have lived here since Nov 1971 so am now considered after 38 years I am now a "local"

Back to the title of this post - I have always understood that a True Londoner was also called a cockney who had to be born within the sound of Bow Bells.

Jean


McGurn, Stables, Harris, Owens, Bellis, Stackhouse, Darwent, Co(o)mbe

Offline Lydart

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,201
    • View Profile
Re: TRUE LONDONERS - can we use such a phrase about our families...?
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 11 October 09 08:22 BST (UK) »
Its the 'incomer' thing isn't it ...

... I've lived here in rural Monmouthshire for 30 years now, yet am still considered to be an 'incomer'.   Whats worse, is that my son, born here, is likewise an 'incomer' !!

I was brought up in London, my parents were both born and brought up there ... yet I never felt I was a true Londoner, just because from when I was very young, I didn't like living there, and got out as soon as I could !   (Aged 18 !)
Dorset/Wilts/Hants: Trowbridge Williams Sturney/Sturmey Prince Foyle/Foil Hoare Vincent Fripp/Frypp Triggle/Trygel Adams Hibige/Hibditch Riggs White Angel Cake 
C'wall/Devon/France/CANADA (Barkerville, B.C.): Pomeroy/Pomerai/Pomroy
Som'set: Clark(e) Fry
Durham: Law(e)
London: Hanham Poplett
Lancs/Cheshire/CANADA (Kelowna, B.C. & Sask): Stubbs Walmesley

WRITE LETTERS FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS TO TREASURE ... EMAILS DISAPPEAR !

Census information Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk