Author Topic: TRUE LONDONERS - can we use such a phrase about our families...?  (Read 10895 times)

Offline Berlin-Bob

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Re: TRUE LONDONERS - can we use such a phrase about our families...?
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 11 October 09 08:39 BST (UK) »
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Back to the title of this post - I have always understood that a True Londoner was also called a cockney who had to be born within the sound of Bow Bells.

If you live close enough to Bow Bells, that's alright, but if you live further away, you may be a cockney, or you may not. Unfortunately, this definition doesn't take the prevailing weather conditions on the day of birth into account.

Depending on which way the wind was blowing ..... ;D

see also:
Quote
A study was carried by the city in 2000 to see how far the Bow Bells could be heard,[citation needed] and it was estimated that the bells would have been heard six miles to the east, five miles to the north, three miles to the south, and four miles to the west. According to the legend of Dick Whittington the bells could once be heard from as far away as Highgate.[14] The association with Cockney and the East End in the public imagination may be due to many people assuming that Bow Bells are to be found in the district of Bow, rather than the lesser known St Mary-le-Bow church.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockney
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Offline NEILKE

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Re: TRUE LONDONERS - can we use such a phrase about our families...?
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 11 October 09 10:50 BST (UK) »
in my village im 5th generation flaxon family now we are up to 7 generations but a lot  of us married people from out the village even now my mam will say oh they not from the village theve only lived here just after the war.
neil
kenny from ireland befre moveing to north shields  flaxen/flexon from cumnor then sunderland robinson from rothbury then north shields urqhart somewhere in scotland then sunderland

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Offline Nick29

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Re: TRUE LONDONERS - can we use such a phrase about our families...?
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 11 October 09 11:09 BST (UK) »
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How long do you have to be in the XXXX community before you are considered a "native" ?

Down here in West Sussex I was once told by a villager that one had to reside there for 30 years before they were consisdered local. Well I have lived here since Nov 1971 so am now considered after 38 years I am now a "local"

Back to the title of this post - I have always understood that a True Londoner was also called a cockney who had to be born within the sound of Bow Bells.

Jean


The whole "cockney" thing is frought with problems.  There were periods when there were no bells at all (St Mary Le Bow was destroyed in the great fire of 1666, and more recently in 1941, when the bells were not reinstalled until 1961).  Also, as others have pointed out, under certain conditions Bow Bells can be heard over considerable distances.

London has always been a magnet for those seeking their fortunes, and the population was also vastly increased with the importation of young men and women to act as domestic servants to the rich, which is how many of us have parents and grandparents from London, when the family's roots were elsewhere.

RIP 1949-10th January 2013

Best Wishes,  Nick.

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Offline skb

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Re: TRUE LONDONERS - can we use such a phrase about our families...?
« Reply #12 on: Monday 12 October 09 17:45 BST (UK) »
Turning this on its head, my husband considers himeslf a true Welsh man (and Cardiff City Season Ticket holder!) even though his father was born in eastern Europe, and his maternal grandparents were born in Bristol and Devon.

(And he doesn't speak Welsh either!)
Byers (Salford & London)
Stringfellow (Salford & Chorley)
Holmes (Manchester & Birmingham)
Goulding/Golden (Birmingham & Lincolnshire)
Bassett (Manchester & Salford, Staffordshire)
Child (Lincolnshire)
Belshaw (Salford)
Hallsworth (Eccles & Salford)
Vernon (Bury & Chapel en le Frith)

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Offline Siamese Girl

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Re: TRUE LONDONERS - can we use such a phrase about our families...?
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 17 October 09 11:06 BST (UK) »
My grandmother was born within the sound of Bow bells - provided they were ringing in 1888/the wind wasn't blowing too strongly from the west/you didn't have muffled hearing through an ear infection/or whatever else might affect it. Her father was a fireman, but hearing the family speak, I don't think you'd have had a clue as to where they came from.

I think of the OH's family as Londoners as they spent most of the C18th/C19th there, but they originally came from Gloucestershire. I wonder how many people have true London ancesters who've lived in the city from (at least) the beginnings of parish registers? Not many I'd guess.

Carole
CHILD Glos/London, BONUS London, DIMSDALE London, HODD and TUTT Sussex,  BONNER and PATTEN Essex, BOWLER and HOLLIER Oxfordshire, HUGH Lincolnshire, LEEDOM all.

Offline IgorStrav

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Re: TRUE LONDONERS - can we use such a phrase about our families...?
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 17 October 09 11:59 BST (UK) »
A very interesting one.

I very much feel like a Londoner, but my father's family came to Greenwich from a) Kent and b) Essex and c) Rutland in the 19th Century; whilst my mother's family were a) Belgian and b) East Londoners.

My mother, the half Belgian one, felt a Londoner because she lived, as her family had before her for at least forty years, in poverty in East London - she'd EARNED her place, so to speak.

My father, with his generally South of the River ancestry, always felt like a North East Londoner because he was born in Walthamstow E17.

I relocated with my family to Oxford in 2004, and was interested to ask my children (now 15 and 18) whether they felt they were Londoners or not, having lived elsewhere for a significant part of their lives.  They both feel Londoners, and we have kept very close links with the capital by almost weekly visits, which I note - as I write it - has been very important for me.



Pay, Kent. 
Barham, Kent. 
Cork(e), Kent. 
Cooley, Kent.
Barwell, Rutland/Northants/Greenwich.
Cotterill, Derbys.
Van Steenhoven/Steenhoven/Hoven, Belgium/East London.
Burton, East London.
Barlow, East London
Wayling, East London
Wade, Greenwich/Brightlingsea, Essex.

Offline Niksmum

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Re: TRUE LONDONERS - can we use such a phrase about our families...?
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 17 October 09 13:34 BST (UK) »
Hmmm a true Londoner....I was born in London, as were my parents, their parents, and their parents and even their parents. I married a Londoner and my children were born there but I haven't lived there for over 30 years.
I am proud of my roots and still say I am going "home" when I visit so Yes I guess I am a true Londoner.

Irene
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Offline Berlin-Bob

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Re: TRUE LONDONERS - can we use such a phrase about our families...?
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 17 October 09 13:41 BST (UK) »
My grandfather and father were Londoners, and I was born in Walthamstowe, London,
(yes it's in Essex now, but it say London on my birth-cert.),
so if the wind was in the right direction ...... say no more ! :D
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Offline IgorStrav

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Re: TRUE LONDONERS - can we use such a phrase about our families...?
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 17 October 09 14:19 BST (UK) »
Hi Bob, I don't think you will find Walthamstow is in Essex - it's in Waltham Forest, which is most definitely London - E17!

When I grew up, close to there, in Leytonstone (now most famous for being the place of birth of David Beckham  ;)), our school books always had Essex County Council on.

However, when the boundaries were changed, it really became London.

I still cling to my high heeled white stilettoes, though, as I'm sure you do.   ;D
Pay, Kent. 
Barham, Kent. 
Cork(e), Kent. 
Cooley, Kent.
Barwell, Rutland/Northants/Greenwich.
Cotterill, Derbys.
Van Steenhoven/Steenhoven/Hoven, Belgium/East London.
Burton, East London.
Barlow, East London
Wayling, East London
Wade, Greenwich/Brightlingsea, Essex.