WW1 Uniform help please

[neil1821]

Canuc,
It's a lanyard rather than an aiguillette I believe. The latter is purely a decorative thing.

Wound stripes are shorter and vertical (granddad's was in WWI - on his left forearm), but in the photos of grandad circa 1918 and grt granddad circa 1920 long service stripes appear to have become smaller and migrated to the right forearm compared with this photo. NCO rank stripes from 1914 are on both arms not just the right as formerly.

Small chevrons on the right forearm c.1918? These sound like overseas service chevrons

[Romilly]

Above his left chest pocket what is that? Is he wearing jodhpurs? Might you be looking at an observer in the Royal Flying Corps? I am guessing, I can offer no evidence
Canuc

Hi There,

My late Uncle was an Observer Officer in the Royal Flying Corp during WW1, but I can see no similarity between his Uniform & LIB's pic. (I'll try to post a pic of him here for comparison).

Romilly.

[themonsstar]

I say hes in the Army Service Corps (ASC) then after 1918 Royal Army Service Corps (RASC).

[liverpool annie]

Wonder if this is him ??

Medal card of Freeman, George S

Army Service Corps
Rx4/263571
Private
Date
1914-1920

http://www.rootschat.com/links/025d/

You can download it for 3 pounds 50 !

Annie 

[LIB]

Those uniforms couldn't be more different could they?  I don't really understand the signifiance of the lanyard - i have managed to get hold of a copy of the original photograph and i will try to get a high quality scan of the hat badge and shoulder detail.

The marksman informatoin definitely makes sense and my grandmother's diary says that her uncle's rifle range made a fortune with young men practising before they enlisted!!!!

[Canuc]

The uniform style will differ, one would expect it to be so, but they are both wearing jodhpurs.

The Observer is an officer, his rank clearly carried on his cuff and he wears the leather belt (a Sam Brown ?) to which his side arm is attached. I believe that early on the RFC did not have a uniform distinct from the Army or Navy and was in any case formed out of men already in one or the other who wore those uniforms in the first instance.

George Freeman is other ranks, he wears no belt for a side arm (this is a semi formal photo he would not have been in appropriate uniform without it), his rank would be on his upper arm for an NCO, or forearm for a Warrant Officer. This was at a time of a very class conscious society their uniforms differed and they wore the symbols of their status.

My grandfather's photos in 1913, 1917 and 1919 show him in a uniform jacket just like George's. His sister is photographed in 1919 at the Royal Artillery Ordnance Depot in Chatham stood behind a whole rank of officers dressed just like the Observer. I don't have anything scanned to show what I mean.

I think I agree with lanyard description as it appears to dissapear inside his top left pocket. However, if one googles "aiguillette" and goes here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aiguillette
It identifies an interesting point about aiguillette and other ranks in the Household Cavalry - but it is talking about now and not 1914-18. This was the war that ended the role of the cavalry charge on horse back. George re-enlisted, so he could have been cavalry or a dragoon of the old school which is why we see the lanyard/aiguillette and the jodhpurs. Loosely linked but how credibly I don't know.

Happy hunting
Canuc

[LIB]

Interesting  - I followed the Wikipedia link and wonder if the following line is sigificant -

"Simple aiguillettes are worn by Lance Corporals of the Household Cavalry and by bandsmen of Dragoon Guards and Dragoon regiments in full dress."

Could GSBF be a bandsman?  When not in the army he was a theatre musician - primarily a drummer.

[km1971]

....and that he was in the army before the war, left, then re-enlisted at start of WW1...

If there was a break of service the service papers for his first stint may be in Kew in WO97. These are original documents and you will have to visit. As he has three LSGC stripes he should have completed his full 12 years enlistment.

The first letter on his shoulder title looks like an "A", so I think ASC is right.

Ken

[scrimnet]

Interesting  - I followed the Wikipedia link and wonder if the following line is sigificant -

"Simple aiguillettes are worn by Lance Corporals of the Household Cavalry and by bandsmen of Dragoon Guards and Dragoon regiments in full dress."

Could GSBF be a bandsman?  When not in the army he was a theatre musician - primarily a drummer.

I really don't think this chap is a bandsman!!!!

Bandsmen were (and those that are left are) non combatants, and are used as stretcher bearers/combat med techs. In all my years (no Roy not THAT many!!) I have never come across a marksman in a band  . He would also have a band lyre on his uniform.

I think the thoughts on aiguillettes are complete blind alleys. Aiguilletes are much larger (and doubled with dangly bits and lots of gold braid)and the nearest thing a bandsman would wear are dress cords. Aiguillettes are an officers affectation, worn mainly by an ADC or the such like.

Roy (themonsstar) is quite the guru on research, and if he is opined that  this chap is ASC I think that is the route you should look at. And as Annie agrees...

Breeches or joddies were worn by all sorts in the army....dont forget that at the time the British army was "driven" by horses in the main!!!

I think therefore that the thoughts on RFC are another red herring....