Author Topic: Goldsmiths of Hellingly/Stones of Hythe  (Read 32082 times)

Offline Tomscot

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Re: Goldsmiths of Hellingly/Stones of Hythe
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 12 May 09 14:54 BST (UK) »
Hi Some of the Goldsmiths were Particular Baptists.
     Thomas Goldsmith Married a Pricilla Green on the 04/06/1780 in Hailsham Sussex. Thomas was born on the 02/06/1757 in Herstmonceux Sussex, they were Particular Baptists.My tree goes back to 1693 a Thomas Goldsmith married a Elizabeth West on the 21/09/1693 in Lewis Sussex, they were my Grtx7 Grandparents. If I can be of any help please let me know.
                                         
                                                                   Regards
                                                                                 Tomscot
     
Sussex,Prodger,Goldsmith,Woods,Roberts, Pankhurst, Green,Souton,Lamper,Lower,Reeds,Turner,Hover,Bennet,Elliard,Peyt,Potter,West,Jeffrey, English,Seal, Clark,Hill,Salter, Carpenter,Blackman,Ince,Booker,Lacy,Acton,Marten,Cressey,Driver,Sowter,Young,Mitchell. Northumberland,Richardson. Northamptonshire, Lines,Pittom,Ward,Hall.Norfolk,Lake,Barnard,Spinks,Stephens,Griston,Gooch, Olley Holman.London Lake.Somerset, Rendell.Scotland, Muir, Clark,Aitken,

Offline rumpuscat

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Re: Goldsmiths of Hellingly/Stones of Hythe
« Reply #10 on: Monday 06 July 09 19:51 BST (UK) »
I apologise to everyone who has posted in the last few months - I had a stroke at the end of February and so have been out of action for a while.  I will read them carefully and reply if I can.  :)
=^._.^=

Rumpuscat

FAIRHALL (Sussex, London, Notts)
LINSEY (Lincs, Notts)
OVENDEN (Kent, London)
ANGERSTEIN (London)
SPICER, CORNS, VALE (Staffs)

Offline beeb

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Re: Goldsmiths of Hellingly/Stones of Hythe
« Reply #11 on: Friday 10 July 09 04:18 BST (UK) »
Hi to all, in an earlier post rumpuscat referred to me as her partner's cousin who had migrated to Australia.    I can help with some queries because of the help I have received from rumpuscat and others.
For Shaneooo - as far as I know there is no link to the Ovendens.   Moses Goldsmith and Sarah nee Stone were my great grandparents.   Moses was the son of Thomas Goldsmith and Keziah Townshend who had other children -
Elizabeth b.1812 named at Hailsham Baptist Chapel 3/5/1812
George b.1815 also named at above, 22/10/815
Joseph b.1816
Keziah b. abt.1818 m. Richard Stone 4/8/1841, Dover he was born abt. 1818, Hythe.  Richard is brother of Sarah who married Moses.
Keturah b.1821
Rebecca b.1823
William b.1827
Moses b. abt.1828, son of Thomas Goldsmith m. Sarah Stone daughter of Thomas Stone at Ashford, Kent on 24/12/1847, all males noted as Hawkers.   By 1861 Sarah is a widow living in High Street, Sittingbourne, Kent with her daughter Diana Reynolds (previously Carrington).
We are not certain of Moses'grandfather, he  might have been Thomas who in the 1841 census had a wife Lucy at Laughton, Sussex.  No mention of a Thomas as son, however there was a Barbara and a Hezekiah and my mother Elizabeth said she remembered her father had a relative named Hezekiah.
Moses and Sarah had a son Thomas who married Elizabeth Gregory, nee Kenny, my grandparents who sadly I never met, both had died by the time I was born.   My mother Elizabeth (1896-1986) married Albert John Baker (1901-1958).   
In 1881 the census has Gf. Thomas  living in a caravan with Eliza Roberts and there were other connections to Roberts.
My mother's sister Deborah I believe had a child/children to a Manoel Baker who was no connection to my father Albert John Baker.
Tomscot the above might be of interest as my gf Thomas Goldsmith was a Particular Baptist.   In Access to Archives I found a reference to a Thomas Goldsmith and others occupying land in Hailsham, they were Protestant Dissenters  of the Particular Baptist denomination.   Also I found a removal order to Hailsham in 1844 for Thomas Goldsmith from Winchelsea with wife Mary and sons Thomas 5 and Amos 3.   Is this your family ?   Can you make a connection to mine ?   And Shaneooo which of Moses' children are you descended from ?
With best wishes to all
beeb



Offline rebekahm28

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Re: Goldsmiths of Hellingly/Stones of Hythe
« Reply #12 on: Friday 10 July 09 10:16 BST (UK) »
Beeb, on the 1881 how old was the Eliza Roberts living with gf Thomas (mentioned two thirds down your post), does it give a birthplace for Eliza?
Casaubon (Geneva, London), Daulinge, Berners, McMullen (Nottingham), Tabb (Leics), Mycock (Derbys & Staffs), Gilbert (Notts), Price (s Wales), Krilovs/similar, gypsy Roberts, gypsy Clark, Bexell (Sussex), gypsy Elliott, Raven, Neligan (Co Kerry), Rymer, Newton (Hull).

Offline shaneooo

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Re: Goldsmiths of Hellingly/Stones of Hythe
« Reply #13 on: Friday 10 July 09 22:56 BST (UK) »
Hi Beeb, my gt grandmother was Deborah, your mums sister, her son Joseph my grandfather. Thanks for the tree you posted as it has filled in a few grey areas i had.
cheers, shane.
Baker, kent
Goldsmith, kent
Perfect, kent
Rattigan, moate eire
Pennell, thanet, Faversham

Offline shaneooo

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Re: Goldsmiths of Hellingly/Stones of Hythe
« Reply #14 on: Friday 10 July 09 23:51 BST (UK) »
Beeb, on the 1881 how old was the Eliza Roberts living with gf Thomas (mentioned two thirds down your post), does it give a birthplace for Eliza?
Hi Rebeka, eliza roberts b stockbury was 30 in 1881 with dau sarah roberts b sittingbourne aged 2. shown as servant and caravan sleeper.
cheers, shane
Baker, kent
Goldsmith, kent
Perfect, kent
Rattigan, moate eire
Pennell, thanet, Faversham

Offline beeb

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Re: Goldsmiths of Hellingly/Stones of Hythe
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 11 July 09 03:53 BST (UK) »
I was pleased to read your reply Shane, I can say Hello Cousin then.   I did meet your ggrandma Deborah once that I remember, my Mum called her Young Deb, that was at the other sister's house, Dinah.   Do you know who M........ is, I think my Mum had a letter from her to say she was looking after the two sisters and then wrote later to say one had died.   After my Mum died in 1986, aged 89, I went through her papers looking for M.......'s address so that I could write, but couldn't find it.   Not long before she died Mum told me that one or more children of  Deborah were sent to Western Australia, Albany she thought, do you know anything about that.   I wrote to a newspaper in W.A. asking if anyone could help me find the child/children, but I didn't know names or even a surname, just some possibles.
I am having trouble with Mum's brothers, she always referred to Tom, Joe, Mo, Francis (who might have been known as Lonnie) and Richard.   I have not been able to find births for Francis and Richard, I did see a baptism for an Aaron which might have been the first name of either Francis or Richard.   Have you any knowledge of the brothers ?
Do you want to know about Elizabeth Kenny, Tom's wife, I have some information about her and her family ?   Let me know if there is anything else I can tell you.
I send greetings to you Cousin and your family,
Brenda
PS Hi Rebekah, Shane answered your query, there was a Sarah living with Thomas Goldsmith's family in the 1891 census.  I think it was Sarah Roberts.   I don't know what happened to the mother.

Offline shaneooo

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Re: Goldsmiths of Hellingly/Stones of Hythe
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 11 July 09 15:27 BST (UK) »
Hi brenda, just some bits from notes,

Thomas gregory(goldsmith) b milton or dover 1887
Joseph goldsmith b 1889 milton
Moses b milton 1892         2a 873
Dinah b milton 1893          2a 838
elizabeth b milton 1896     2a 905
Aaron  b milton  1898 vol  2a page 893 BMD.
deborah b milton 1903      2a  1030
thomas b milton 1905       2a  1005
and posibbly a kate helen b 1901 2a 974 d 1902 2a 768
in the 1911 cencus it shows richard aged 13 b milton, no sign on bmd index or the 1901 and no sign of aaron on 1911! can we assume these are the same person? also shows there were 9 born 7 surviving this marriage.
I would like that info on elizabeth kenny thankyou.
thanks, shane.
Baker, kent
Goldsmith, kent
Perfect, kent
Rattigan, moate eire
Pennell, thanet, Faversham

Offline beeb

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Re: Goldsmiths of Hellingly/Stones of Hythe
« Reply #17 on: Sunday 12 July 09 07:40 BST (UK) »
Hello to Shane and Helen, remembering my Mum was over 80 when she gave me this information and that she had left Kent about 1934 this is what I recorded -
Joseph Baker, Constance Baker, Margaret Matthews, George Matthews, Patricia Matthews, Arthur Matthews, Charles Matthews and Rosie Matthews.   No dates.  So I haven't been of much help there, sorry.   Perhaps the missing children are the ones sent to Australia, maybe through a scheme such as Barnardos.
Thanks for the info on Tom/Elizabeth's children.   I think you are right, it was Aaron Richard, but there was another younger son, perhaps the Thomas b. 1905 was Francis then.  Mum and Dinah used to take them to school and they always played up.   Little Kate died, "overlaid" Mum said, perhaps a cot death.  I didn't have the dates so thanks for that along with all the other information.

Shane this is the information I have on my grandma Elizabeth Kenny -
her parents Michael Kenny and Catherine Ronan married in Dover St. Paul's RC Church, 1/6/1853.  He was son of Michael Kenny and Mary Walsh.   Catherine daughter of Thomas Ronan and Mary Barry.  In 1861 in Dover Michael is a Rag & Bone dealer, 35,b. Kerry, Ireland and Catherine 30, b. Co.Cork, (Ardfield) Ireland.  Children Mary 7, John 3 and Catherine 6 months, all children b. Charlton.   Elizabeth last child born 1 Jan. 1863.   Michael died aged 38 Dec.27 1866. 
Catherine and children went to live with her parents and in 1871 at Barwicks Alley, Dover, her father Thomas b. Ardfield, Co. Cork, 80, is now a widower, Catherine is a laundress, no Mary, but John, Catherine and Elizabeth are with her.   There is also a "son-in-law" of Thomas Ronan, Florence McCarthy, 38, pensioner and tailor, b.Ireland.   There was an Ellen Mary Kenny birth d/o Florence and Catherine, b. 9 March 1872, registered as Kenny birth.   Perhaps son-in-law was another name for partner or de facto.   I don't know what happened to Florence but Catherine seems to have married a Richard Gillman before 1877 as she died on 15 March 1877 as Catherine Rowland ( should have been Ronan) Gillman and is buried  at St. James' Cemetery, the parish register has Catherine Gillman (Kenny).
I don't know what happened to Mary, John or Ellen or their mother Catherine's siblings possibly Michael,  Margaret and Ann (who married James Ovenden), I am doubtful as to whether Ann is my line.
Elizabeth's sister Catherine (known as Kate) married Albert Dunster 3 May 1880 in St. Paul's.
Elizabeth married first James Gregory at St.Paul's 16, Feb.1882.   Elizabeth was 19 of Military Road, Dover, father Michael deceased, a marine store dealer.  James was 24, a mariner of 7 Worthington Lane, Dover, his father Henry Gregory, labourer.   Witnesses Charles McCarthy and Ellen Gurthrie.  James is believed to have died before 1888, drowned at sea.
Children baptised at St. Paul's - James Henry b.18 Apr. 1883, Albert Edward or William b.28 Nov. 1884 (died aged 3 mnths.)   David b.15 Mar. 1887.   I don't know what happened to these children.
Elizabeth Gregory married secondly Thomas Goldsmith at the parish church Sittingbourne, 15 Aug. 1888 they both claimed to be single and Elizabeth had her father as Thomas Kennett, witnesses were George Grigsby and Deborah Goldsmith.   I think there was an earlier marriage to Thomas in a Catholic church but it wasn't registered correctly perhaps,  the children of their union seem to have been baptised in a Catholic church and I am not sure that would be allowed without a Catholic marriage.   Someone else may know about those regulations.
The 1891 census was confusing with Thomas Gregory noted as stepson of the above said to be aged 1, while Joseph's birthplace was given as Dover and aged 4.   I thought perhaps Thomas was aka David Gregory who was born in 1887 which could make him 4 in 1891.   What do you think ?
I would very much like to have Mickey's address if she wouldn't mind, thank you Shane.
Best wishes to you both and thanks Helen for your input. Brenda