Helen Irvine - Brechin

[Rowana]

Also, had some luck with James Irvine's war service records on Ancestry.com.
He enlisted with the Scottish Rifles Corp on 5th January 1899...I have quite a bit of further info that I will send to you in a personal message tomorrow.

You didn't mention the WATT connection in your family....do you have much info on this side? It would be interesting if we have a connection there.

Annie,

I'm not sure if that's the correct James Irvine.  My Father said that his dad was in the Boer War, but I'm not sure of the dates.  I have his marriage certificate which gives his occupation as "Railway Surfaceman". He married my Grandmother, Susan Jane Stronner on 31st December 1908 in Montrose.  My Father also said that his Dad was in the first world war, so did he join the army twice? 

Questions, questions!

I can only go on what my Dad told me, and he said that his Dad was working in a mill in Montrose, and ran away to join the Army. Perhaps he did, and went to South Africa to fight in the Boer War, got demobbed and went to work on the railway, then was called up again for WW1.  Could this be correct, I wonder.

The Watt connection is on my Mother's side.  My Great Grandfather was a Thrift Watt who was a saddler in Stonehaven, and was born in Fordyce or Portsoy, Banffshire around 1829.  He was married twice. His first wife was Isabella Lees, who was born about 1835 and died in 1867. He then married Agnes Ann Dorian who had originated in Ireland.  I know a fair bit about this side of the family.  Do you thing there is any connection?

Cheers

Jim

[Rowana]

hi jim

don't know if you have this already but

1901 census 11 queen st montrose
helen bell age 39(!) born memuir flax spinner
isabella irvine age 11 born montrose

on the 1891 census it was 17 castle st. montrose angus

also possible death for helen irvine 1926 montrose angus
born 1855 + or - 1 year on scotlandspeople
can't see a marriage to a james bell

james irvine married susan stronner 31st dec 1908 montrose
and had at least 3 kids
susanna b 24th oct(?) 1909
david      b 4th april 1911
john       b 30th ? 1914       (? - hard to read)
looks like he served in the boer war and first world war
according to his service records.

Hi ev,

This is great.  Where can I find my Grandfathers service records?  Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I'm new to this game! 

You're correct in James marrying Susan Jane Stronner in Montrose on the 31st december 1908.  They actually had 5 children, but 2 of the boys died of flu in about 1919 or thereabouts.

Nan (Susanna?) was my Dad's elder sister, but they didn't get on at all.  I think I only met Nan twice in my life, and was never in her house. She married a Frank Mowatt, and they had about 5 children. I met one of them once, but know nothing of the others.

Dad had a younger sister, Nellie Mary Grant Irvine, who subsequently had a Son, David (Wallace, possibly) Irvine, then married an Ed Mackie around 1950ish.

The David born on 4 April 1911 was my Dad. He died in 1980.

Thanks for all this help

[ev]

hi jim

as annie mentioned james irvines service records are available
on ancestry.com which is a paysite which also contains census
records for scotland
on the records his next of kin is helen irvine 11 queen st montrose
from memory i think he re-enlisted at the outbreak of ww1
annie will probably tell you all about his service records in her
personal message

ev

[Rossmcd]

I'm trying to find out about a Helen Irvine who was living at Montrose Street in Brechin where she gave birth to a James Irvine on christmas day 1881. The child's father is not stated.

Any help appreciated.

I also am seeking Helen Irvine as she is listed as the mother of Allan (Donnett) Irvine born 1879.
He married Euphemia Pendlebury in 1903 and travelled to Brisbane in 1910/11
Attached is a family picnic in 1936 with Allan on end at the right. His death certificate says father David and mother Helen Cooper. But his grandaughter has said ," to Helen Irvine & James Bell ( a cooper), also had an illegitmate brother, but that subsequently, the parents were married"
The fellow in the striped jacket is his nephew David Wallace Irvine Jnr, on holiday from Yallourn Victoria

Thanks if you have any further information

Ross

[Rowana]

Ross,
That's an absolutely brilliant photo which fills in yet another bit of the puzzle.

Where did Allan & Euphemia marry? How many children did they have?

It seems that Helen had a few illigitimate children.
David WALLACE
William MOUATT
Allan DONNETT
James IRVINE (My Grandfather)
Isabella IRVINE

Who was David Wallace Irvine Jnr's father? Was it David Wallace, Allan's half brother?


My father was also David Wallace Irvine, and my youngest Daughter is Dawn Wallace Irvine, but would have been David if she'd been a boy!

I'd love to hear more of the Australian family and who else is in the picture.

Jim

[Forfarian]

1851 Census
Address: Ireland (??)

Not a problem. Ireland is a farm, now abandoned I think, on the hill north of Ledmore in the parish of Menmuir, not far from Rome!

http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NO5266 shows them on the map. Using the directions in the square box at left of the map to follow the road (yellow line) down to Ledmore and Kirkton.

[Forfarian]

as annie mentioned james irvines service records are available
on ancestry.com which is a paysite which also contains census
records for scotland

Just to be thoroughly picky, A******y has transcriptions[/i] of these records, not originals.

Original army service records are in the National Archives at Kew, London. See http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Original census records are on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

[Rossmcd]

From my father's cousin

Thankyou very much for the photos, which I have never seen before. I do recall hearing about Grandfather Allan Irvine's two nephews Dave & Tom. , whom I think were possibly Engineers & worked at the Power Station in Yallourn - or whichever factory manufactured the brown coal briquettes.
The group family picnic photo would have been taken about 1937 or 1938, as it shows
back row- David Irvine (Allan's son) holding David (jnr),, wife Alison (wife) beside him, then your Mother Nell (Helen McDowell (nee Irvine)), beside Grandma Euphemia Irvine. ,then John Allan Irvine, Effie., your father Cec (Cecil Herbert McDowell). & Grandpa Allan Irvine.
 Middle row L to R.- me(Joan Webster nee Coote), aged about 4, Allan (about 10), my Mother May (Marion Coote nne Irvine) & in front row, Dave Irvine, (Vic. relation), & my father Charlie Coote, whom I think is holding (you), Allan McDowell.

 Years ago, I spent time at the Q'ld. Archives looking up Shipping Lists for example - lists of migrants etc., so it may be worthwhile for Ross, or Malcolm to look at the Vic. Archives. Apart from that , I recall my Mother telling me that her Father came here about 1910/11 & I have an original copy of a "passenger's contract ticket" for the ship ,"Perthshire" leaving London on 28th. Sept. 1912 for Q'ld. showing Euphemia Irvine (aged 38), with children, Marion (aged 7), Helen (aged 3) David (aged 5) & Euphemia (aged 1). My Mother gave me this copy, & said that her father came over earlier to establish a job as a railway engine driver & once settled, arranged for his family to join him.
 & I vaguely remember my mother telling me that her father had a brother who joined the Blackwatch Regiment in the First World War, but whether he survived the fighting in France, I don't know.
Affectionately,
Joan.(Webster)

 Could you tell me about your current family, children??

I have just contacted Malcolm who is son of Tom Irvine and he is visiting me this weekend!

Ross McDowell
Warragul, Victoria, Australia

[ev]

Hi Ross 

Please use the PM system to send and receive email addresses , information about living people and
any other personal details
Just click on the small green scroll to the left of the post of the person you wish to contact

ev