surname changes

[missysue]

I have located my great great grandfather James Spence out of Liverpool.  He was born in  1816 and the eldest of a very large family.  However, it is believed that his father was possibly Italian and married to an English woman and took on the name Spence.  I was also told he was a sea captain that ran routes to Jamaica from Liverpool.  I am at a dead end and would love some suggestions.

[jorose]

People could and did change their names without any need for paperwork.  You can track down some of the other details of the family, though:

i.e., his father may have been a sea captain - his marriage certificate (it seems from looking at your other messages you should have been able to get this) or the original christening records for the children should give occupation.  You can try and see if there's any records that use unusual spelling variants that might hint at the original form of the name.  Or unusual first names in the family? Or middle names?

Incidentally, is this the James Spence that first married Ellen and then a Mary from the US? This appears to be his first wife's death in the Times:
The Times, Thursday, Mar 02, 1854; pg. 12; Issue 21678; col F
On the 26th ult, at Gyrn Castle, Flintshire, aged 33, Ellen, wife of James Spence, Esq, deeply lamented.

You don't say who his father was, but also:
The Times, Thursday, Apr 05, 1860; pg. 1; Issue 23586; col A
On Tuesday, the 2nd inst, at 18, Park-terrace, Brixton, Surrey, James Spence, Esq, formerly of Liverpool, aged 85

In 1861, at 18 Park Terrace, Brixton RG9/363 15/28
Jane Spence, widow, 64, Funded Property, b. Chester Cheshire
Mary, dau, 37, b. Liverpool
Peter, son, 33, broker in metal, b. dit
Emma, dau, 31, b. dit
Frances, dau, 24, b. dit
Harriette, dau, 23, b. dit
Agnes, dau, 18, b. Southampton Hampshire
Maria Searle, 34, unmarried, servant b. Bow
Fanny Newman, 24, unmarried, servant b. Cambridge

In 1841 this family are in Southampton, James the head of the family is 57 and not born in county, but not listed as foreign. He is a merchant.  James Jr is not with them, though. There is a possible marriage in Cheshire in 1815 for James Spence/Jane Elizabeth Jones which would make the timing about right.

Could the mariner link be to his grandfather? www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline has one hit for a John Spence, mariner, in Liverpool. (Administration letter from 1804).

[missysue]

Thank you so much for the added info on James Spence's family.  My great great grandmother was the second wife (Mary Ann).  Her mother was English by the last name of Fordham and moved with an uncle to the states.  Unfortunately she died leaving Mary Ann and a younger sister to a rather inept father (Charles DeLasere) who took them back to England to live with the Fordham family and there she met James Spence (now a widower) and they had 4 more children. 
One other item of interest was that of Gyrn Castle in Wales.  I noticed the first wife died there and my great grandfather has a painting of the place where the family spent time in his boyhood.  However, it appears James Spence lost his fortune a time or two.  We have never been able to find paperwork on the ownership of the Spence family there, however brief, although a Mr. Bates (a recent owner) gave my parents a tour and said there was a pool table there with the name of Spence. 

[BushInn1746]

Thank you so much for the added info on James Spence's family.  My great great grandmother was the second wife (Mary Ann).  Her mother was English by the last name of Fordham and moved with an uncle to the states.  Unfortunately she died leaving Mary Ann and a younger sister to a rather inept father (Charles DeLasere) who took them back to England to live with the Fordham family and there she met James Spence (now a widower) and they had 4 more children.

One other item of interest was that of Gyrn Castle in Wales.  I noticed the first wife died there and my great grandfather has a painting of the place where the family spent time in his boyhood.  However, it appears James Spence lost his fortune a time or two.  We have never been able to find paperwork on the ownership of the Spence family there, however brief, although a Mr. Bates (a recent owner) gave my parents a tour and said there was a pool table there with the name of Spence.

The London Gazette of 1880 is granting the dignity of a Baronet to a number of individuals and an Edward Bates of Gyrn Castle and elsewhere appears in the list.
...

Edward Bates, of Bellefield, in the county palatine of Lancaster, Gyrn Castle, in the parish of Holywell, in the county of Flint, and of Manydown, in the parish of Basingstoke, in the county of Southampton, Esq.

Mark

[Ladyhawk]

I have located my great great grandfather James Spence out of Liverpool.
He was born in  1816 and the eldest of a very large family. 

Is this his baptism?

James Spence born 30 Sep 1816 & Elizabeth Jane Born 30 May 1818
Baptism Date:   20 Jul 1818 Liverpool, St Anne
Father James Spence, occ Merchant
Mother Elizabeth Jane
Reference Number:   283 ANN/2/1

Same parents
Edward Jones Spence & Robert Murray Longmore Spence Baptism 19 Nov 1821 Christ Church Liverpool
John Buck Spence & Mary Ann  3 Jan 1827
Peter Spence 5 Apr 1828
Emma Clara 17 Nov 1829
there's a further 6 baptism for the same couple at St Anne's Stanley between 1832 - 1838

One other item of interest was that of Gyrn Castle in Wales

I noticed the first wife died there and my great grandfather has a painting of the place where the family spent time in his boyhood. 

It looks as if James' first wife Ellen was buried in Liverpool

Liverpool, England, Church of England Burials, 1813-1974
Ellen Spence age 35 abode Gyrn Castle Whitford Co. Flint
Burial Date: 4 Mar 1854 St James Toxteth Liverpool
Reference Number:   283 JAM/4/3

9 Jul 1842 St Luke Liverpool
James Spence, Junior,merchant
Ellen Jackson
his father   James Spence merchant
her father Richard P Jackson merchant
Witnessed by Edwd J Spence, Elizabeth ? Jackson & Jane Elizabeth Spence

1851 HO107; Piece: 2174; Folio: 281; Page: 36
James Spence 34 occ Iron Merchant
Ellen 31
Mary E 7
Reginald 6
Walter M 4
Edith M 1
All dittoed as born Liverpool
3 servants
Janet Jones 40 Wales, Margaret  Roc?25 Ireland & John Langley 15 Cheshire

Mary Emmeline born 24 Jun 1843 baptism 12 Jan 1844 St Anne Stanley
Father James Spence occ Merchant Mother   Ellen Spence
Reference Number:   283 STA/2/1

James Reginald  born 6 Mar Baptism 20 May 1845 St Anne Stanley
Father James Spence occ Merchant mother Ellen
Reference Number:   283 STA/2/1

Edith Mary & Walter Murray
Baptism Date:   22 Jan 1850 Liverpool, Lancashire
Father:   James Spence occ Merchant Mother:   Ellen, abode Princes Road
Register Type:   Bishop's Transcripts Reference Number:   Drl/2/319

28 May 1856 St Bride Liverpool
James Spence f/a widower, merchant, Falkner St.
Mary Anne La Serre f/a Sp. 59 Knight St.
his father James Spence, Gentleman
her father Charles La Serre (dec’d) Gentleman
Witnessed by Peter Spence & Mary Ann?? ??
Reference Number:   283 BRI/3/7
details from Liverpool, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1813-1921

1871 RG10; Piece: 3783; Folio: 66; Page: 20
James Spence 55 Iron Merchant
Mary Ann 47 US
Emeline M 27
Reginald 23 Cotton broker
Walter 24 Iron Merchants
Hubert L 12
Edwd F 10
Lilian 6
All others born Liverpool
4 servants

James Spence occ Iron Merchant & family are living in Kensington London in 1881
RG11; Piece: 30; Folio: 27; Page: 31

Widowed James Spence is still living in Kensington with dau Lilian in 1891
RG12; Piece: 21; Folio: 95; Page: 76

Dr Hubert de Laserre Spence born 8 Aug 1858
Birth Place:   England (son of James & Mary  (LaSerre) Spence)
Death Date:   5 May 1935 Painesville, Lake County, Ohio, USA
Cemetery:   Evergreen Cemetery Burial or Cremation Place: Painesville, Lake County, Ohio, USA
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01hk4/

ADDED
Sorry missysue didn't notice that your post was back in 2007 - you probably have all the above info. 

[whiteout7]

"Bar and buskin: being memories of life, law and the theatre
By Edward Fordham Spence

I am interested in this book - it mentions Italian handwriting 400,00 pounds, Gym Castle and an estate in Flintshire. Have you ever read it? Perhaps a library might have one?

https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=fuA1AAAAIAAJ&q=Gym+Castle+Estate,+Flintshire,+Spence&dq=Gym+Castle+Estate,+Flintshire,+Spence&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjK7L7hzrzMAhVHOJQKHbrFCCoQ6AEIKDAA

[Ladyhawk]

"Bar and buskin: being memories of life, law and the theatre
By Edward Fordham Spence

I am interested in this book - it mentions Italian handwriting 400,00 pounds, Gym Castle and an estate in Flintshire. Have you ever read it? Perhaps a library might have one?

https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=fuA1AAAAIAAJ&q=Gym+Castle+Estate,+Flintshire,+Spence&dq=Gym+Castle+Estate,+Flintshire,+Spence&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjK7L7hzrzMAhVHOJQKHbrFCCoQ6AEIKDAA

Don't know if this link from Trove maybe helpful http://www.rootschat.com/links/01hk7/
1) The University of Melbourne. The University Library.
2) Newcastle Region Libraries. Newcastle Region Library.

Added for info.

EFS married 1892 Kensington Grace Katherine Casper, she was born in Sandridge Victoria, living in Kensington 1881 with her parents & sibling RG11; Piece: 36; Folio: 48; Page: 26

Her sister Palmyre Georgina Casper  died 30 Dec 1929 probate  London 28 Mar 1930 to Edward Fordham Spence K.C. and

Edward Fordham Spence K.C. of 89 Andover Road Newbury Berkshire died 28 May 1932
Probate London 29 June to G L West solicitor