Author Topic: Gordon Family -- Penninghame  (Read 12686 times)

Offline indigobloke

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Gordon Family -- Penninghame
« on: Sunday 18 November 07 12:00 GMT (UK) »
Hi

I'm just beginning to track my mother's family and have traced my GGgrandfather, John Gordon, to Penninghame, Wigtownshire. I have found him/his widowed mother, Margaret, in the various 1851 Census-related pages.

My question relates to the IGI entries for his birth (and his parents' marriage). There are two for each, one for Penninghame and one for Newton Stewart. I can see from the map that Newton Stewart is the larger town.

1851 Census gives place of birth as Penninghame and I presume this is the actual place of birth. Was it usual for registrations to be made at both locations?

Thanks, Peter
Wilson (Wakefield, Yorkshire)
Gordon (Midlothian)
Ruddle (Wiltshire)
Alley (Laois)
Pierce (Westmeath)

Offline Gadget

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Re: Gordon Family -- Penninghame
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 18 November 07 13:52 GMT (UK) »
Hi Peter

The Marriage/banns records are often recorded in two places - banns were read in the parishes where they each lived. I've not come across more than one baptism though.

Gadget
Census &  BMD information Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and GROS - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

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Offline JAP

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Re: Gordon Family -- Penninghame
« Reply #2 on: Monday 19 November 07 02:21 GMT (UK) »
Peter,

In this particular case - both in the marriage record(s) and in the birth/baptism(s) record(s) - there is one entry that has been extracted from church registers and one entry which has been submitted by a member of the LDS.

Go with the extracted records  ;)

Submitted records can be very helpful but one does need to treat them with considerable caution - especially when (as in the case of the submitted birth record for John GORDON) they do not have a precise date and they have the place preceded by "Of".  At their best, submitted entries can be absolutely correct - but at their worst, they can be nothing other than pure guesswork.
I note that the submitted entries include further details which might be useful pointers.  They have the parents of Margaret (VERNON) GORDON as James VERNON & Margaret DICKSON, and her death year as 1873.  They have John GORDON's death year as 1865.

Incidentally, I have (only twice) seen two extracted records for baptism of the same child.  The only reason I could think of was that the happy parents had the child baptized soon after birth but a little while later they visited a set of grandparents who wanted to celebrate a christening - so the child was 'done' again in their local church ...

Regards,

JAP
PS: The marriage (1829) and the birth (1838) were both long before Statutory Registration commenced in Scotland (1855).  So the records are not 'registrations'.
The marriage record is the entry in the church register referring to proclamation of Banns (usually, but not always, on two or three consecutive Sundays); the entry might also mention the date of the actual marriage - which, at that time, usually took place in a private home.  The birth date sometimes, but not always, is recorded in the entry in the church register of the baptism of the child.
PPS: I notice that all the children of Wallace & Margaret have an extracted birth/baptism entry (all Penninghame) and a submitted birth/baptism entry (all Newton Stewart, or Of Newton Stewart) - extracted entries are Mary bap 1829, Margaret bap 1832, Jessie bap 1835, James bap 1837, John bap 1838, Isabella bap 1841, Wallace born 1843, Robert born 1845 and Samuel bap 1849.

Offline JAP

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Re: Gordon Family -- Penninghame
« Reply #3 on: Monday 19 November 07 02:53 GMT (UK) »
Hi again Peter,

I've just looked at the entry for Penninghame in Genuki at:
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/WIG/Penninghame/index.html

It says that the parish church for the parish of Penninghame was located in the town of Newton Stewart - so there's really no conflict between the extracted entries and the submitted entries.

In the 1841 census on FreeCEN, the family is in Newton Stewart in the Civil Parish of Penninghame (Wallace is not there):
GORDON household
Margaret 30 (remember ages of persons over 15 were rounded down to the nearest 5 in 1841)
Jessie 5
John 3
Isabella 7 months
All born in the county

JAP


Offline JAP

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Re: Gordon Family -- Penninghame
« Reply #4 on: Monday 19 November 07 03:01 GMT (UK) »
Hi yet again,

Where were Mary (1829), Margaret (1832) and James (1837) in the 1841 census?

I can't find James (perhaps he didn't survive) but here are possibilities for Mary and Margaret.

ED5/Fol 5/Page 1, Newtown, Penninghame
Mary GORDON 10
in the household of a James VERNON (perhaps her uncle or another relative?) 31 Shoemaker.

ED8/Fol 8/Page 6, Newton Stewart, Penninghame
Mary Margaret (apologies for typo) GORDON 5 (age a bit out)
in the household of a James VERNON 55, Shoemaker and Margaret VERNON 50 (perhaps her maternal grandparents?)

JAP

Offline JAP

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Re: Gordon Family -- Penninghame
« Reply #5 on: Monday 19 November 07 03:39 GMT (UK) »
And finally ...

From the Wigtownshire Free Press BDMs at:
http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~leighann/wfp/intro.html

GORDON, Male - B26/2/1843 - At Newton-Stewart, on the 26th ultimo, Mrs Wallace Gordon, of a son.

Offline indigobloke

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Re: Gordon Family -- Penninghame
« Reply #6 on: Monday 19 November 07 10:04 GMT (UK) »
Thank you JAP ... this is all very useful information. I was beginning to suspect that the "Of" was significant.

I was quite interested to see that there was a [year] date of death for John, particularly because he died (by drowning) in Sydney, Australia.
Wilson (Wakefield, Yorkshire)
Gordon (Midlothian)
Ruddle (Wiltshire)
Alley (Laois)
Pierce (Westmeath)

Offline JAP

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Re: Gordon Family -- Penninghame
« Reply #7 on: Monday 19 November 07 10:24 GMT (UK) »
Peter,

No doubt you have the following from the online NSW BDM records at:
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/searchHistoricalRecords.htm
John GORDON, parents Wallace & Margaret, d 1865, Balmain NSW, #1450

Also a death record for:
Robert GORDON, parents Wallace & Margaret, d 1910, Macksville NSW, #5961
(year of death given in the submitted entry)

Also perhaps relevant the following death record?:
Isabella MILLS, parents Wallace & Margaret, d 1902, West Wallsend NSW, #16323

It seems that there is a member of the LDS who is interested in your family.

JAP

Offline indigobloke

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Re: Gordon Family -- Penninghame
« Reply #8 on: Monday 19 November 07 10:47 GMT (UK) »
JAP

Yes, I did see that NSW BDM record. I don't have that record but I am expecting to receive a copy of John's marriage record any day now.

I suppose that Isabella Mills could well be Isabella Gordon. I didn't see her in the 1851 census lists ... well, not at her mother's house, I didn't look further afield. These trails always lead to other trails ... Also looks as though other family members followed John to Australia.

Peter
Wilson (Wakefield, Yorkshire)
Gordon (Midlothian)
Ruddle (Wiltshire)
Alley (Laois)
Pierce (Westmeath)