olde english

[harewoodhouse]

  Thanks all, I knew that you  clever guys would be able to help me. It just amazes me how much you all seem to know !...so now I have to get the words of the first one or find myself a copy of this Norman Aults book to find out who wrote the poems  originally, I think someone must of read them  and copied them down so they could keep them, it looks like they were written on one of the blank pages from the front of a book, but not the Cassell's History that I am reading as the page is bigger (I only folded it up so I could scan it to put it on here) I did wonder if appeared in this book and someone had copied it out but I cant find it , it does have a section where it gives examples of poetry of that time frame but not these two..I am no writing expert  I thought it said o cry o cry and I thought the double ff was just someone putting their hand on a wet letter and  making a smudge print of it..ha-ha

[Little Nell]

I've transcribed the longer one of the two and spent some time looking for it on the net without success.  But unless I've read it wrong, it's definitely meant as a dig at the perceived enemy - the last two lines seem a bit vulgar! 

Upon the Death of Queen Elizabeth
F’well ye all both great and small
& f’well yee all truly
That we have now a very great cause
for to lament and cry
O fye, O fye, O fye, O fye O fy thou cruell death
For thou hast taken away from us
Our good Queen Elizabeth

He might have taken other folkes
That bother might have been must
And let us alone with our good Queene
That lov’d not a Popish Priest
Shee rul’d this Nation by her selfe
& was beholden to no man
O shee bore the Sway, & of all affaires
& yet shee was but a woman

A woman (Quoth I) and that is more
Than anie man can tell
How faire shee was & how chast she was
There’s no man know it well
The Monsieur came himself from France
On purpose for to wooe here
And yet shhe liv’d and dyed a maid
Doe what he could to her
Shee never did anie wicked act
To make her conscience prick her
Nor ever would submitt to him
That call’d himselfe Christ’s Vicar
But rather chose couragiously
To fight under his Banner
Gainst Turke and Pope & King of Spaine
And all that durst withstan here

In Eighty Eight how shee did fight
Is known to all and some
When the Spaniard came her courage to tame
But had better have stay’d at home

They came with Ships, filld full of Whipps
To have lasht her Princely Hide
But shh had a Drake made them all cry Quake
& banged them back and side

A wiser Queen never was to be seen
for a woman or yet a Stouter
For if  ane thing ……. her
With that wch came next her
O How shee would lay about her

And her Scholarship I may  may not … ship
For there shee did so ..ell?
That amongst the ……..without all double
Queen Besse shee bore the bell

And now if I had ….eyes
They were one too few to weep
For our good Queene Elizabeth
That here lyes fast asleep
A sleep shee lyes, & so shee must lye
Untill a the day of Doome

But then shee’l arise & pisse ri…the Eyes
Of the proud Pope of Rome

Nell

[harewoodhouse]

Fantastic !! Thanks Nell...I had worked out a bit of it but I just couldn't figure out the rest, mind you it has some words I have never heard of before in it  (what does eke mean in the Sir Frances Drake poem? I thought eke meant to make something last) and when it says o fye  what does that mean , I thought if you were o fye with something it meant you knew all about it...(you can tell I left school when I was 15) I love finding all books in old junk shops and reading them, I never really knew any English history as it wasn't taught in our school much, we mainly were taught  the history of new zealand which as it was only discovered a few hundred years beforehand was not much (the Maori had no written language) I will print out the poems and keep them with the paper so if anyone else comes across them they will know what they say...thank you all !..oh I must go and see the Queen Elizabeth movie that is out, have any of you been to see it ? is it any good ?...sue

[Little Nell]

Eke is apparently an archaic word for "also" - so that would fit.

The "eighty Eight" in the first poem refers to the Spanish Armada which tried to invade England in 1588 and was seen off by a combination of Drake and his pals plus the appalling British weather!

Fie is an exclamation of outrage - also relatively archaic.

No, not seen the film.

Nell

[harewoodhouse]

I am still looking for who wrote them...came across this really interesting site thought someone from here might find it interesting as well
http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/h/hakluyt/voyages/v08/complete.html

[Michael J]

Re the poem on the Death of Queen Elizabeth, I've highlighted in red a possible interpretation of the difficult words in the last few lines:

A wiser Queen never was to be seen
for a woman or yet a Stouter
For if  anie thing vext her
With that wch came next her
O How shee would lay about her

And her Scholarship I may not let slip
For there shee did so excell
That amongst the Vout without all doubt
Queen Besse shee bore the bell

And now if I had Argus eyes
They were one too few to weep
For our good Queene Elizabeth
That here lyes fast asleep
A sleep shee lyes, & so shee must lye
Untill a the day of Doome

But then shee’l arise & pisse out the Eyes
Of the proud Pope of Rome

Michael.

[harewoodhouse]

the heading for the Frances Drake poem reads if I am not mistaken
"Upon Sir Frances Drakes return from his voyage (about the world ?) and the queen knighting him", well that was in 1581 when he was knighted so that narrows down my surch for an author a little bit  had to be someone born after that date hmm no problem...ha-ha

[Jean McGurn]

And now if I had Argus eyes

Wonder if this line in modern parlance would read

'And now if I had extra eyes'

Problem here as I see it is the first letter of the word is obviously not the letter e. (Check the e of  the words eyes)

In fact the word itself looks a bit odd. The first two letters do not seem to be written quite in character with the rest of the writing. I am wondering if it has been copied from something and the writer couldn't quite decipher the word.

4. EIizabethan Lyrics, coll. by Norman Ault

Norman Ault as given in Bob's post, was a scholar of seventeenth century poetry and of Alexander Pope.  Ault died in 1950.  He published an anthology of Elizabethan lyrics in 1925. 

Berlin Bob and Nell may have hit the nail on the head.

Tried to find out what a Whipp is or was and the nearest I have been able to find is the word 'Whipster' which meant cunning person and was used late 17c to early 19c.

Jean

[Berlin-Bob]

In Greek mythology, Argus Panoptes or Argos (Άργος), guardian of the heifer-nymph Io and son of Arestor,[1] was a giant with a hundred eyes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argus_Panoptes



Hi Jean,

Yes, that sounds like 'extra' eyes to me   

Bob