Author Topic: Marriage record Abenbury Fawr area  (Read 8616 times)

Offline lidgett

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Marriage record Abenbury Fawr area
« on: Saturday 24 November 07 23:14 GMT (UK) »
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Elizabeth Taylor, widow on 1851 with children ranging from Sarah b 1807 to twins Margaret and Martha b 1845 all in Abenbury Fawr, all saying father James Taylor, a tailor.  Any chance anyone can find her marriage for her maiden name, etc.  Elizabeth died 1866 according to death cert reported by daughter Mary Griffiths she was then 86.  I haven't been able to confirm the twins births on the GRO or North Wales bmd.
Lidgett
Boote, Formston, Furber, Lidgett, Thomas, Taylor, Leach, White-Cheshire
Goddard, Sweetlove-London
Goddard Lyngcoln-Suffolk
Roberts Bellis Owen-Flintshire
Taylor Thomas Evans-Denbighshire

Offline wrjones

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Re: Marriage record Abenbury Fawr area
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 25 November 07 00:48 GMT (UK) »
Given that  the Twins are only given as six year old,and Elizabeth is given as 66 years old as I see from the actual entry,I don't think the Twins are her daughters.

Regards
William Russell Jones
Cefn Mawr
Wrexham.
Jones, Griffiths. Stephens, Parry, Gabriel, Conway, Hughes, Evans, Roberts, Lea, Hanmer. Peake, Edwards. Newnes, Davies. Thomas. "Blythin".
All North Wales.
Conway, Durber, Cartlidge, Lovatt, Bebington. Brindley, Sankey, Brunt. Dean. Clewes. Rhodes. Mountford,Walker,Bache, "Gibbons"Hood. Taylor
All Stoke-on-Trent.
Francis - Nantwich Cheshire.
Dennell - Cheshire/Staffordshire.
Talbot-Shropshire
Census Information Is Crown Copyright,from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline lidgett

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Re: Marriage record Abenbury Fawr area
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 25 November 07 00:57 GMT (UK) »
Hello WRJ
No I thought they might have been grandchildren,born to a maiden daughter perhaps, but it still might have led to something.  But I can't spot any twins by the names of Margaret and Martha.  The only other child born after 1837 is a John, of which there are many!  I just hoped someone miught have access to the parish registers for marriage, or possibly even for the baptisms of some of her children, Maria born c1836 my GGGrandma for example?.......
Nice to hear from you again,
Lidgett
Boote, Formston, Furber, Lidgett, Thomas, Taylor, Leach, White-Cheshire
Goddard, Sweetlove-London
Goddard Lyngcoln-Suffolk
Roberts Bellis Owen-Flintshire
Taylor Thomas Evans-Denbighshire

Offline wrjones

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Re: Marriage record Abenbury Fawr area
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 25 November 07 09:35 GMT (UK) »
I have to say I am as puzzled as you are by these apparent Twins,Martha and Margaret Taylor and the non appearance in the same Quarter and Year in the GRO Birth Index.Martha Taylor appears in the October Quarter of 1844,and there are two Margaret Taylors in the October Quarter of 1845.Have you possibly tried to obtain the Birth Certificate for the Martha that is showing to start with?As far as the Parish Registers are concerned,they would only appear in these if they were Baptised at Wrexham St Giles,and they wouldn't appear if Baptised at any Non Conformist Chapel.

Regards
William Russell Jones
Cefn Mawr
Wrexham.
Jones, Griffiths. Stephens, Parry, Gabriel, Conway, Hughes, Evans, Roberts, Lea, Hanmer. Peake, Edwards. Newnes, Davies. Thomas. "Blythin".
All North Wales.
Conway, Durber, Cartlidge, Lovatt, Bebington. Brindley, Sankey, Brunt. Dean. Clewes. Rhodes. Mountford,Walker,Bache, "Gibbons"Hood. Taylor
All Stoke-on-Trent.
Francis - Nantwich Cheshire.
Dennell - Cheshire/Staffordshire.
Talbot-Shropshire
Census Information Is Crown Copyright,from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline wrjones

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Re: Marriage record Abenbury Fawr area
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 25 November 07 10:03 GMT (UK) »
I'm afraid,looking at your post again;Can you seriously suggest that Elizabeth could give Birth to children in 1807 and 1845?

Regards
William Russell Jones
Cefn Mawr
Wrexham.
Jones, Griffiths. Stephens, Parry, Gabriel, Conway, Hughes, Evans, Roberts, Lea, Hanmer. Peake, Edwards. Newnes, Davies. Thomas. "Blythin".
All North Wales.
Conway, Durber, Cartlidge, Lovatt, Bebington. Brindley, Sankey, Brunt. Dean. Clewes. Rhodes. Mountford,Walker,Bache, "Gibbons"Hood. Taylor
All Stoke-on-Trent.
Francis - Nantwich Cheshire.
Dennell - Cheshire/Staffordshire.
Talbot-Shropshire
Census Information Is Crown Copyright,from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline wilcoxon

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Re: Marriage record Abenbury Fawr area
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 25 November 07 14:19 GMT (UK) »
In 1861 I have found both Martha and Margaret aged 18.
Martha is a servant in the household of James Ellis aged 45 in Dutton Diffeth.
Margaret is a servant with William Phillips aged 45 wife Mary 49 in Cacca Dutton.
So it seems that they were born about 1843 according to the census record.
Also in 1861 an Elizabeth Taylor, house servant , widow, aged 76 b about 1785 at Llanfair Denbs is living in Gresford .
This still doesnT help with their father though ??? ??? ???

There are a couple of Martha`s and Margarets on North Wales BMD but not in the same year. ???

Census information is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)

Offline lidgett

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Re: Marriage record Abenbury Fawr area
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 25 November 07 18:49 GMT (UK) »
Hello Wilcoxon and WRJ
Thanks for your comments.
Just for the record Wilcoxon, the Elizabeth living in as a housemaid you mention is living with the Sarah b 1807 mentioned in my first post.  She married John Bythell , and I am in touch with a descendant of theirs, as we are trying to piece it all together.  She also states her father as James the tailor.   But there is an entry for Elizabeth b 1876 in Abenbury Fawr and in 1851 she states'tailor's widow washer woman living in her own house'.  In 1861 she is living with her daughter Mary who married Edward Griffiths in 1852.  Another son of Elizabeth turns up in 1881 living with Mary Griffiths daughter Elizabeth who by then is married to George Edwards, he is described as Robert Taylor age 60 Uncle.  I have followed these families as well as I can through the censuses and Martha and Margaret (noted as twins in 1851) are I believe the ones Wilcoxon mentions.  Martha marries Robert Thomas of Aldford Cheshire in 1860.  The cheshire parish records show this and she states her father James a tailor, as does Maria when she married Richard Thomas of Aldford in 1856.  Maria is in Pickhill as a servant in 1851, not living with her mother.  These along with those shown on the 1851 census are all the children of Elizabeth I have identified so far .

I started looking for the twins as I thought they would be easiest to spot in the registers,but no.  Now they are a mystery instead of a solution!  It is intriguing.
In the interests of genealogy all I really need is someone who could look up a marriage for James and Elizabeth, however with there being so much confusion over when the marriage might have taken place I can see this could be difficult.
Lidgett
Boote, Formston, Furber, Lidgett, Thomas, Taylor, Leach, White-Cheshire
Goddard, Sweetlove-London
Goddard Lyngcoln-Suffolk
Roberts Bellis Owen-Flintshire
Taylor Thomas Evans-Denbighshire

Offline wilcoxon

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Re: Marriage record Abenbury Fawr area
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 25 November 07 20:35 GMT (UK) »
Not really a solution but I`ve found a Martha Taylor registered Dec qtr 1844 Wrexham and two Margaret Taylors in Dec qtr 1845.

Have you thought that the `twins` could have been sisters born less than a year apart, and the census clerk put twins down as he saw they were the same age.  ??? ??? ???


 I can look in Wrexham PRs for you when I`m in Wrexham museum again,
sometime soon.
Sooooooo  we are looking for marriage of  James the tailor , and Elizabeth ?  b 1786?, This `should` be in trancscriptions as its before 1807, Sarah`s birth.
 Later ones are one micro film and I`ll need a reader.
Then the children of this couple , and finally the `twins`  ??? ??? ???
Census information is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)

Offline lidgett

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Re: Marriage record Abenbury Fawr area
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 25 November 07 20:51 GMT (UK) »
hello Wilcoxon
I wouldn't want to put you to all that trouble.  The marriage if you can find it, yes please, I would very much like that.  I hope you are right and it has been transcribed so it will be easy for you.  As you can tell there could be a problem with the date if Sarah is a red herring.  That would make Mary or Robert the oldest known child c 1821. Sarah b 1807 and Maria b 1836 are the only children that are on the direct lines, and as for  the twins, well as I said I am just curious about where they might fit in, I'll leave them up to you.  I have no idea how long this might take you but I'd be grateful for just the marriage.
Thank you very much
Lidgett
Boote, Formston, Furber, Lidgett, Thomas, Taylor, Leach, White-Cheshire
Goddard, Sweetlove-London
Goddard Lyngcoln-Suffolk
Roberts Bellis Owen-Flintshire
Taylor Thomas Evans-Denbighshire