Royal Household

[irvinemg]

CORRECTION TO PREVIOUS MESSAGE:

1.  Betsey Irvine Laidlaw was the second last child and only surviving 
     daughter of Betsey Irvine.

2.  Betsey Vair was NOT the first wife of George Hart of Highchesters Rox.

Seeking information on one Isabella Hart, Granddaughter of George Hart
and Helen Knox of Roberton Roxburghshire. Isabella died at Bovina Delaware
NY in 1897, wife of one Robert Jackson.

This Isabella Hart was the daughter of a George Hart and Agnes Kersall.

A George and Agnes Hart were living at Zorro Township Ontario as at 1851
also having a daughter Isabella Hart aged 12 years.  All this family
were born in Scotland. The age of this George Hart matches that of the last
child of George Hart and Helen Knox, named George.

ERROR IN OTHER IRVINE FAMILY TREES:

RE  JANE NICHOL ( NEE IRVINE ) AND WILLIAM NICHOL OF ROSSSHIRE.

I have noted at least 2 familiy Histories on line, connected to the Families
of Rachel Beattie and William Irvine mentioned herein. Both name Jane (Irvine) Nichol as a child of Rachel Beattie, and also give Rachel Beattie's parents as a John Beaty and Jane Robson. ( INCORRECT )

1. The above Jane Irvine Nichol is most likely NOT the daughter of referred Rachel Beattie.  Most likely the daughter of William Irvine Snr of Milsington Rox, and adopted into her elder brother's family some time between 1819 and 1833. That being the family of William Irvine Jnr and Rachel Beattie.

2. The Rachel Beattie daughter of John Beaty and Jane Robson was born
in 1794.  MY Rachel was buried at Contin Rossshire, having died on 17 Dec 1839 aged 38. She was born sometime in 1801. Rachel's  Mother or Grandmother named either Mary or Elizabeth.

Please. Anyone doing these Trees, please contact me, as two Heads are
better than one in geting the information correct.

Lastly. The Mother of my Great Aunt Ellen Common died at Gault Ontario in 1862. She was Mary Common (Nee Potts).

Any information on the Common Family of Hobkirk Roxburghshire, or the Potts Family of either Cumbria or Northumberland England, would also be greatly
appreciated.


Mike Irvine.

[harvoid]

Jane Nicol Irvine named after  Rachels mother, Jane Robson
William and Rachels first child Jane born in Mar 1818 and they married 21 months later on 15dec1819 in the parish of Roberton
Jane Irvine was born on 9 mar 1818 at Milsington,in Roxburghshire and was baptised at nearby Roberton on 16apr1818.The baptism record shows that jane was ' a natural Child',confirming that her parents were not married at that time.her fathers occupation was recorded as labourer.
Jane moved north to Ross-shire with her family and on 21jan1841 at Lochbroom,she married William Nicol,a shepherd who had been born in Caithness in 1808.In 1856 William and Jane immigrated to New Zealand,arriving at Port Chalmers,Dunedin,Otago on board the "Strathmore" on Oct 2nd 1856

Regards
Ross

[irvinemg]

Ross

Thanks for your reply. I agree that  the term " Natural Child " means a
child born out of Wedlock. However there is no documentary evidence
that Jane is Rachel Beattie's child. ie No birth Cert or Death Cert mentioning
Rachel Beattie.

Why was Jane's birth not registered by her mother, and the notation
" Illegitimate " marked on Parish records?
 
Can you tell me please, why my Rachel born in 1801, can be the daughter
of Jane Robson when her Rachel was born in 1794?

You state that Jane moved with the Irvine Family in 1841 to Loch Broom.
My records state that the last male child Adam Irvine was born in 1833
at Roberton Roxburghshire, and the next three children were all born in
Rossshire prior to 1841.  ie 1835, 1837 and 1839.

Forgive me Ross, if this is a sensitive matter relating to your family, but
misleading information does not help other researchers, or opens
channels to other family connections.

Only to happy to have my theory proved wrong if the truth is
revealled, and the records are put right.

Keep in touch,

Kindest regards to a possible relation.



Mike

[irvinemg]

Correction to previous message:

Above referred Adam Irvine was not the last male child, a younger brother
was born at  Contin Rossshire in 1835.


Mike

[irvinemg]

COMMON FAMILY OF HOBKIRK ROXBURGHSHIRE.

Dear Readers.   

In reference to the book " Rulewater and it's People ", by
George Tancred, 1905.  the author mentions a James Irvine marrying a Christian Common.  Mr Tancred had possibly mistaken Christian Common whom married Simon Irvine ex Dumfries. It was James Irvine that married a Christian Telfer.

Andrew Comyn Irvine, also known as Sandy Irvine of Mt Everest, took the ancient name of Comyn ( Modern name of Common ), and is a direct descendant of Simon Irvine and Christian Common of Southdean Roxburghshire. Simon was a Manufacturer in Jedburgh and died prior to 1851,
after which Christian administered the business as his widow.

Simon Irvine was a possible uncle or cousin of one Simon Rae ex Dumfries
whom married my Great Aunt Mary Irvine in Rossshire. Also related to the
Simon Beattie's ex Dumfries. As mentioned previously, Mary's brother William
Irvine married Ellen Common also in Rossshire.

Simon was also a close descendans of the Little, Beattie and Murray Famiies
of Dumfries, and Elizabeth Little Irvine Murray, sister of Gen Sir John Irvine Murray, the latter, niece and nephew of Major Gen Sir Archibald Irvine.

Any Families researching the above names in Dumfries or Roxburghshire, I
would love to hear from.

Also any associations to  Lieut Col Archibald Irvine born at Westerkirk Eskdale  in 1797 and died at Highgate London on the 29th Dec 1849. This man's father
farmed at Hawcleugh Farm Roxburghshire.  In 1835 Archie Irvine named here,
married a Marianne Elizabeth Sparks in Allahabad Uttar Pradesh India.

Many thanks to readers. Help needed to connect the links.


Mike

[jstaffor]

Hello Irvinemg
I have some information on the Inglis family that you mention in post #34.  Margaret Inglis, wife of Joseph Hobson sr,, is the daughter of John Inglis and Margaret Lockie.  John was born in 1786 in Roxburghshire.  Margaret was born in Kelso in 1789.  They lived in Bowden where several children were born.  The family emigrated to the Guelph area of Upper Canada in 1827.  They were neighbours of the Laidlaws and Hobsons in Paisley Block near Guelph.
You mention several successful descendants of these families.  William A. Paterson was a grandson of John Inglis.  William was a successful manufacturer of carriages in Flint Michigan.  He switched to automobiles and eventually sold out to Buick in 1923.  He was the mayor of Flint for a while.
I have no information about the connection of the Inglis family with the Irvine family, but perhaps these dates and places will help.

[irvinemg]

Hi Jstaffor

Many thanks for replying.

I did find Margaret Lockie along the line. I have her down as also being born in
1786. She died aged 89yrs on the 1. June 1875. Not confirmed but wonder if
she was a daughter of John Lockie and Margaret Pittillo, their Margaret
christened on 14 June 1789 at Ednam Roxburghshire.

John Inglis I have as being born in 1786 at Ancrum, son of James Inglis. John Inglis died at Guelph on the 1 Aug 1862 aged 76yrs.

I am currently looking for a Jane Paterson who married a John Archibald Irvine
and settled in Victoria Australia. Maybe related somewhere to your William
Paterson.  The families so large and well entwined.

Will keep searching. Many thanks again for your message.

Regards

Mike

[jstaffor]

Hello Mike
We seem to have the same Margaret Lockie but with a minor discrepancy.  The inscription on her gravestone and the Ontario vital records both list her date of death as 11 June 1878.
I also have unconfirmed notes that her parents were John Lockie and Margaret Pittillo.
The Inglis, Hobson and Laidlaw families were all wealthy and successful farmers in the Paisley Block near Guelph.  I searched for the Irvine name among their neighbours but found none.
Nor can I help you with the Jane Patterson-John Archibald Irvine connection but the forenames gave me pause.  Jane Inglis, daughter of John Inglis/Margaret Lockie, married Archibald Patterson and their son, William, was the automobile manufacturer in Flint MI.
Cheers
Jim

[irvinemg]

Hi Jim

Many thanks for searching for the Irvines'. I haven't had much luck either,
but did read somewhere, an article  giving reference to a Thomas Irvine of the Paisley Block that married a girl Tribe.

Many of the Irvine's in Ontario came from Northern Ireland, but having
said that, there were inter marriages with people from Scotland.  Even
a Grt Aunt of mine, after leaving Scotland married a Northern Irishman.

Maybe with changing circumstances in Scotland, some landowners that
had land in Ireland gave work to Scottish Shepherd's etc, then some
moving onto Canada.

There was a Thomas Irvine born in 1841 at Weston Ontario that moved to
Iowa in 1860 entering the Timber business and did very well. This man
died at St Paul MI in 1930.

In reference to the Jane Paterson and John Irvine. Jane had a sister Helen
that married a William Laidlaw. Their son, also William Laidlaw settled at
Warranbrool Victoria Australia as did my Grt Uncle William Irvine, as well
as a brother of Major Gen Ryall that married Elizabeth Murray referred to
previously. 

Said Col ?? Ryall mentioned in "Rulewater and It's People", had died in 1894
at Hawthorn Victoria Australia, and had been a Major General, not a Colonel,
at the time of Tancred's book being published.

Ryall had no children by Elizabeth Little Irvine Murray, as she may have been a casualty of the Cawnpore and Jhansi Massacre's in India around 1857. Ryall married his third wife in 1859, and in memory of his second wife, gave his 4th son,  the name of Irvine Murray Ryall.

With the Inglis family, you mentioned that they moved to Ontario in 1827.
Do you have any background info on their employment in Scotland, and
why they moved to Canada?

I also noted a Robert Irvine that married a Barbara Lockie at Melrose in 1830,
but haven't found any family connections as yet.

Sorry for deviating, re the Ryall Family info , but maybe out of these notes,
others may help us both in our research.

Cheers for now.

Mike