Pre 1837 Marriage Look up Rochford

[minack]

Hi Bryant,

You have been very busy.  I printed off the messages you sent and carry them around to keep reading again - trying to get my head around the tangles.

I see what you mean about Archibald's death - he could have just been a child.  I'll see what the two birth certificates tell us and then (if necessary I will order the death certificate).  I am already sure that Mary (Maria, Mary Ann, Ann or Hannah) is pushing the truth a bit.  I am sure that Sarah's certificate will not show Archibald as her father.  If it was Archibald (Mary's husband)  that died in 1844 he could not possibly be Sarah's father - possibly not Frederic (ck)'s father either!!

I guess it is possible George had no idea who his father was and at the time of his marriage - put his brother's name down.


Okay here are the facts of the 1851 census:

Mary Duprey 41 born approx 1811 Widowed, Dress Maker born  Rochford Essex
George Duprey 15 born approx 1836 son of Mary, born in Newington Surrey, Errand Boy
Frederick Duprey aged 7 Scholar born 1843 approx Rochford Essex
Sarah Salmon Duprey 6 Scholar born 1845 Rochford Essex

all living at 158 West Street, Clarks Yard
Rochford sub registration district Rayleigh

I also looked at some of the census returns for 1841 especially the William Duprey who had the tailor George Allen living with him.  Very suss.

The other one of note was the 1841 result with Henry and Hana with George at the right age.

I guess Henry and Archie could sound similar under certain circumstances .

Archibald (born in 1834) or Arch (as he called himself) by 1891 Hannah's husband the lock keeper was on a barge in Scotland as a Watchman.

The other thought I did have was that Archibald migrated to America, Canada or Australia and dumped his wife Mary.  She had to survive and was a common law wife.   I can remember a conversation at my grandparents house 40 or 50 years ago between my grandfather and father stating that a member of the family had migrated (possibly to Australia) and was a ganger on the railways.

George went on to do the same to his family.

The plot thickens.

Regards

Minack

[andreduprey]

Hello Jacqui, Bryant, Minak.

Am really pleased to read your interest as Archibald and Mary Duprey were my Great Great Grand Parents and I too have had trouble finding a marriage. I found them through my Great Grandfather Frederick Duprey's birth certificate , born Rochford 1843. By 1866 he is in Reyleigh Essex and his marriage certificate to Matilda Lucy Holman gives his Father as Archibald Ambiland Duprey - Tallow chandler.

Archibald's death certificate shows him dying on 19th September 1844 at Rochfoerd, occupation  Tallow chandler and cause of death scarlet fever 1 week. Registered 20th September 1844 by the mark of Sarah Salmon - in attendance.

The certificate for Sarah Salmon Duprey born 27 November 1844 at Rochford gives Father as Archibald Duprey (deceased) and Mother Mary who registered the birth on 4th December 1844. Census returns confirm Sarah Salmon as Grandmother for the child , but it seams that Mary had another marriage before Archibald.

A certificate for Alfred Duprey born 22 June 1841 , gives Archibald as Father and Mary formerly Banyard as Mother. This was registered by Archibald on 22 July 1841 and gives an address of 14 Old Street in the district of St Luke's  Middlesex. This gives the answer to the 1841 census question as I have looked it up and it is one of the missing pages for that census. Typicall !

Being on Old Street links in to the St Luke's registers and the entry for an Archibald born to Francis and Elizabeth which I have taken as our Archie. Have wondered if the William in the 1841 census is Father to Francis and also where Mr Allen fits in.

Frederick remained in Rochford , recorded as a bootmaker and by 1881 had a shop in Prittlewell Southend. I too have not found him in 1871 , but a family story that he travelled in America has been borne out by an obituary report. Perhaps he was there then ? His son alfred , born 1869 , emigrated to Australia and I have copies of photographs of him in sidney. Frederick died in Southend in 1928

Still digesting all the bits of information and would love to share other information and ideas.
andreduprey@hotmail.com

[Bryant]

It appears we have relatives on the post 

OLD STREET (still there today) which runs between City road & Aldersgate street as far as I can recall, it is on the 1841 census...........but is number 14?.....I would imagine it numbers from City road but could be wrong, I can see number 40 going upwards and also quite a few pages with no numbers (by entering the good old name of Smith for St Luke, Middx) but haven't come across any low numbers!
Bunhill Row and City Road are there so if that little piece is missing you have been a touch unfortunate to say the least.....

Bryant

[minack]

  Hi Bryant and Andre (My 5th cousin),

Well the certificates have finally arrived and George's is not among them.  I have received Sarah's and can confirm Andre is correct and Mary was married before.  The writing on the certificate is a bit messy and I was pretty sure her name was Barnyard.  In any case I have spent some time looking for her first marriage on Ancestry with no luck, even using wild cards.  I will keep at it.

In the meantime I will reorder George's birth certificate.  I have even tried to find details of Archibald as a name - it is indeed french.  I cannot however find much on the second name Amberland.  I will keep trying.

A prosperous New Year to you both,

Regards

Minack

[Bryant]

A possibility.........

5th July 1834
Samuel Barnard to Ann Salmon.............but where did they get married?

from originsnetwork.com but a fee is involved if you want a copy from them!

Bryant

[Bryant]

Well well..............where was George born

The marriage..........it was St Mary's Newington, Surrey.......LDS site...they have the marriage on the 8th not the 5th July

Question........where are you ordering George's birth cert from, when he was born (or so it appears ) before registration?..........registration started Sept qtr 1837

Bryant

[minack]

 ???Hi Bryant & Andre,

I looked at the LDS site and I am not 100% sure this is the marriage.  What is confusing me is that Archibald Duprey the lock keeper appears to have been born in 1834 - I think this is Archibald senior's first child, then I think George was born.  I have two dates for George either of which can be confused phonetically 1835 and 1839.  I have ordered the certificate for 1839 although now I am almost sure that will not be him.  It will be the first one I have purchased when I haven't been so confident that my research is good.  We will see.

I also checked the deaths as I figure that if she was legally married to Samuel then surely he would have died before she moved on to Archibald.  I daren't look for any children Samuel and Mary may have had as it could get a tad complicated.  The other thought is that Archie and Mary were not married at all or it was a bigamous marriage in which case they may have fibbed about their names etc.  If only we could find the 1841 census - it would solve so many problems as both Archibald, Mary, Archie jnr and George are all missing at that time.  Are there a number of records missing or destroyed just from the 1841 census? Where are the original records kept - is that at the National Archives Family Centre?

I will have a search for Mary under the married name in the 1841 census just in case Archibald is the lodger.

It is 30 degrees C here today so I expect to spend a fair bit of time of the computer although I am relegated to the laptop.

Regards

Minack

[Bryant]

Minack

The cost of that marriage allegation from Originsnetwork is £10, I think the S.O.G (society of genealogists) send you a hard copy......the postage appears to be free! wherever you live............

however, as it originally was the work of the LDS church if you have a centre near you ? you can get it for free

It may contain details of where Miss Salmon was from and as you know the date of the marriage their should be witnesses to peruse over...........

Don't tell me............the nearest LDS centre is 5000 miles away 

Bryant

[minack]

Hi Bryant and Andre,

George's birth certificate has arrived.  As I suspected it is not the right one.  This George's father is Henry and mother Anna.  Henry is a cotton spinner by trade.

I was reading emails on the mailing list site and saw one about a Wax Chandler - I think Tallow and Wax may be one and the same!!  Apparently the wax chandlers were quite well off; and I found a lot of  wax chandlers' wills on Archives.  Alas no Archibald.

Tomorrow I am visiting the local LDS Church to look through their fiche.  If I can get copies of entries I will do that when I visit.  If I am unable to do that locally I will contact the bigger LDS Church in South Australia and see if I can order copies through them.  In the meantime I have found a set of British Vital Index Records for sale - would these be any use?  Are there more records on these cd's than on IGI for example?

I'll keep you posted.

Regards,

Minack