Wanderers

[lalkav]

Whilst researching my husbands family tree I have found a death cert for his grandfathers twin brother aged 8 weeks. It states that the cause of death was due to being ill fed owing to the parents being wanderers. Does this mean that they were from gypsy travelling families? Whenever I've managed to find any documentation regarding the family the parents occupations were listed as brushmaker, hardware hawker, wireworker.

Thanks

Lorraine

[Maggott]

Seems a good guess to me - my Gipsy family were hawkers,  chairmakers & pegmakers.  They eventually settled & the men became brickworks labourers but the women went on caning chairs.
Whereabouts did your people live?
Maggott

[lalkav]

I have George Jenkins b1861 Bristol and Bridget Collins b1873 Ireland. I have managed to find children born to them in Dundee (1897), Aberdeen (1899 & 1901), Falkirk (1905). I have found one of the children's death certs in Banff in 1897. I have also found them in the 1901 census living in Darlington. So it seems like they really did wander!

One question I do have is regarding gypsy marriages. ie is there any such thing? The twins born in Dundee in 1897 were registered with the surname Jenkins. As it was in Scotland they always write the date and place of marriage of the parents on the childrens birth certs. The place of marriage was stated as Dublin. However, there is then an amendment to the registers giving the twins surnames as Collins and listing them as illegitimate. Is this because George and Bridget had some form of gypsy marriage which is not recognised legally or did they just make the marriage up? All of the subsequent children are registered as illegitimate and with the surname Collins, sometimes naming George as the father sometimes left blank. Again on marriage certs for the children they sometimes name their father as George or again it is sometimes blank. This has resulted in half of the family calling themselves Collins and the other half call themselves Jenkins but they are all siblings!

Any help regarding George Jenkins would be appreciated as I can only find him on the 1901 census.

Many thanks

Lorraine

[Maggott]

That's a poser- my lot came from Surrey & they seem to have had 'normal' marriages.  I'm pig-ignorant about the practice in Scotland & Ireland but I'm sure someone else will know all about it - similarly Gypsy marriages.  Good luck
Maggott

[tiggi]

Hi
 Reading your message and coming from a gypsy background I would say this, The oldens many did marry by the gypsy custom and would also marry in churches,, they nearly always had children batized even if couple were not married as most were not brought heathen.
 As you have found on your documnets that they took mother's name it would seem they weren't married in the eyes of the church so  children take the mother's surname, as for leaving father's name blank that is something you must decide if they were all his children. hope this helps