Author Topic: Elusive g-g-grandfather  (Read 20526 times)

Offline Ayashi

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Elusive g-g-grandfather
« on: Friday 04 January 08 16:05 GMT (UK) »
I'm having some trouble tracking down one Theophilus Jones. On two censuses (Plymouth), he is written as having been born in Carmarthen Llanfrengal. After discussing this with some Welsh people, we thought it might be a misspelling/Anglicisation (is that a word?) of Llanfihangel in Carmarthenshire. Unfortunately that has brought me no closer. The census before puts his birth place, if it is him, as Llanfihangel Aereddia (which we thought might be a misspelling of Llanfihangel-ar-Arth?) and I found an entry on a website, about the right time and place, for Llanfihangel Abercowen.

Someone recommended this site to me. I didn't know if anyone could help or give me any advice on this... I think he was born in 1863 (the website put it at 3 qr 1863, which would be about right) and I'm trying to track his military records to find out when he moved from Wales to Devon, but I don't know how to get those either (has anyone else managed it?)

Thanks...

Offline yonderpeasant

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Re: Elusive g-g-grandfather
« Reply #1 on: Friday 04 January 08 16:16 GMT (UK) »
is that him on the 1881 at LLandefeilog Carmarthenshire father Theopilus mother Elizabeth? to give us some sort of starting point.
This information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Ridgway.  
 Salop.Lancs.Stoke on Trent.
Colclough.Ackley.Adams.Harris.James
 Longton  Stoke on trent Staffs.
Scholes.Collinge
 Middleton Lancs.
Gogerty.Deavonporte
Salop.

Online Cas (stallc)

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Re: Elusive g-g-grandfather
« Reply #2 on: Friday 04 January 08 16:20 GMT (UK) »
Hello Ayashi, a warm welcome to Rootschat  :)

Could you give refs to census you found him, and which ones you need?

I have only come up with one of same namesake 1863 +/- 2 yrs Carmarthen  the same as you found

1871 - Piece: 5496; Folio: 48; Page: 20
Llanfihangel Abercywyn

Theophilus Jones age 7 born Llanfihangel Abercowin, Carmarthenshire parents Walter & Elizabeth and also siblings


Cas
Census information is Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Squire/Thomas/Davies/Gibbons/Mordecai/Bowen/Lewis/Rees/Williams/Jones/Llewellyn/Morgan - Glamorgan
Lewis - Breckonshire
Davies/Roderick - Myddfai Carms
Lloyd/Jones - Denbigh/Salop
Thackwell/Thomas - Hereford/Monmouthshire
Shoemac/Squire/Keirle/Small - Somerset
Berry/Baggot/Lee/Clayton - Lancs
Yelland/Bray/Trethewey - Cornwall
Baggot/Hurley/Keaveny/Shiel/Flynn - Ireland

Online Cas (stallc)

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Re: Elusive g-g-grandfather
« Reply #3 on: Friday 04 January 08 16:41 GMT (UK) »
Freebmd gives these births between 1860 - 1870, if you give census details perhaps we can help pin down birth?  Carmarthen would be right reg area for Llanfihangel

Births Sep 1863   
 
JONES  Theophilus    Carmarthen  11a 627   


********************
Births Sep 1865   
 
Jones  Theophilus     Carmarthen  11a 678

********************
Births Mar 1867   
 
Jones  Theophilus     Carmarthen  11a 683

hoping to help

Cas


Census information is Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Squire/Thomas/Davies/Gibbons/Mordecai/Bowen/Lewis/Rees/Williams/Jones/Llewellyn/Morgan - Glamorgan
Lewis - Breckonshire
Davies/Roderick - Myddfai Carms
Lloyd/Jones - Denbigh/Salop
Thackwell/Thomas - Hereford/Monmouthshire
Shoemac/Squire/Keirle/Small - Somerset
Berry/Baggot/Lee/Clayton - Lancs
Yelland/Bray/Trethewey - Cornwall
Baggot/Hurley/Keaveny/Shiel/Flynn - Ireland


Online Cas (stallc)

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Re: Elusive g-g-grandfather
« Reply #4 on: Friday 04 January 08 17:17 GMT (UK) »
Checked the 1891 & 1901 think this is a very likely marriage which would give you fathers names.

Marriages Dec 1887 
   
Hamley  Elizabeth Jane     Plympton  5b 417   
Hamly  Elizabeth Jane     Plympton  5b 417   
JONES  Theophilus     Plympton  5b 417   

Also he has a son named Walter in 1901 mistranscribed 'Walker' 1891.  1891 gives pob as Llanfihangel, so looks likely the 1871 is prob correct...

I would post on the military board with what you know of his career, they are great..I had excellent results from there...

Cas
Census information is Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Squire/Thomas/Davies/Gibbons/Mordecai/Bowen/Lewis/Rees/Williams/Jones/Llewellyn/Morgan - Glamorgan
Lewis - Breckonshire
Davies/Roderick - Myddfai Carms
Lloyd/Jones - Denbigh/Salop
Thackwell/Thomas - Hereford/Monmouthshire
Shoemac/Squire/Keirle/Small - Somerset
Berry/Baggot/Lee/Clayton - Lancs
Yelland/Bray/Trethewey - Cornwall
Baggot/Hurley/Keaveny/Shiel/Flynn - Ireland

Offline Ayashi

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Re: Elusive g-g-grandfather
« Reply #5 on: Monday 07 January 08 14:40 GMT (UK) »
We have the birth certificate of his son Walter (my g-grandfather) dated 1890 (father Theophilus Jones, mother Elizabeth Jane Jones, formerly Uglow). He was in East Stonehouse, Plymouth on the 1891 census with wife, stepdaughter (Annie Lititia Walker), daughter Elizabeth Ann and son Walter. He is in the same place in 1901 with Walter and daughter Esther Mary (I can't remember if the older daughter is there, but Annie has gone). Annie was born in Kent in 1881 and Elizabeth was 1888 so I presume they were married between those two dates (although not necessarily...) I found A Theophilus in Carmarthen St Peter in 1881 (aged 18) and I just have a feeling about him. That's the one who was supposed to have been born in Llanfihangel Aereddia. I can't confirm that he is the right one, of course, but he was the most likely candidate of all the records I found in the 1881 census (we have disks from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints).

Cas, the one with father Walter would make sense if he called his son Walter... That was quite a common thing. I think 1867 would be far too late. 1865 is possible, but something about it doesn't strike with me. On his death record (military, 1916) his age is given as 52, if I recall correctly. I reckon he hadn't had his birthday yet when he died. I favour 1863, although that could just be myself leading me the wrong way  ::)

I'll go to the military board now. Thanks!

Online Cas (stallc)

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Re: Elusive g-g-grandfather
« Reply #6 on: Monday 07 January 08 18:35 GMT (UK) »
Cannot locate marriage... >:( wondered if she was married before with daughter in 1881 but cannot locate under Walker, Uglow, maybe mistranscribed...cannot see them living in forces accom. without being legal....

Checked all census as you mention, think 1881 is very near match, possible parents are still in Carms 1881

Hope you get good results from armed forces board....let us know

best of luck

Cas
Census information is Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Squire/Thomas/Davies/Gibbons/Mordecai/Bowen/Lewis/Rees/Williams/Jones/Llewellyn/Morgan - Glamorgan
Lewis - Breckonshire
Davies/Roderick - Myddfai Carms
Lloyd/Jones - Denbigh/Salop
Thackwell/Thomas - Hereford/Monmouthshire
Shoemac/Squire/Keirle/Small - Somerset
Berry/Baggot/Lee/Clayton - Lancs
Yelland/Bray/Trethewey - Cornwall
Baggot/Hurley/Keaveny/Shiel/Flynn - Ireland

Offline Ayashi

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Re: Elusive g-g-grandfather
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 09 January 08 17:23 GMT (UK) »
Walter's birth certificate is written in very good handwriting and clearly says 'Uglow', although having said that I don't think it is the original copy and someone might have misread/mistranscribed from the original. Uglow is a real surname though, and the right area...

Theo changed his age on every census he was on, so that doesn't help us find his DoB...

I like the option you found for 1871- naming your son after your father was common practice, so it's a good possibility. I'll put that top priority for checking out... although proving it isn't exactly 100%...

Unfortunately that brings 1881 into conflict. Yonder Peasant offered a possibility and I have the one about Carmarthen St Peter, in which he isn't living with his family.

Cas, I would like to say now that I appreciate everything you've done for me so far  :) When someone said this was a brilliant site, they weren't kidding x

Offline Ayashi

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Re: Elusive g-g-grandfather
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 09 January 08 17:25 GMT (UK) »
P.S, on Elizabeth Uglow, she was born c.1860 so she couldn't have had that many marriages before Theo... The pair of them are pains in the backsides...