Author Topic: Life in the Jute Mills of Dundee in 19thC  (Read 8004 times)

Offline Keith Sherwood

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Re: Life in the Jute Mills of Dundee in 19thC
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 10 December 20 12:52 GMT (UK) »
...this is all so bizarre.  Maybe John CLEGHORN continued his predilection for older women, for in 1832 he would have been  only 19 years old, and Margaret SIMPSON (b.1797) would have 35 years old.  That marriage and the three sons it seems to have produced are visible through the various subsequent Censuses.
That 1836 marriage to  Helen RICHARDSON would have to be another John CLEGHORN, surely?  Back to the drawing board, I think.  The problem is that on Ancestry the Scottish original images cannot be seen, only the transcripts.
Keith

Offline coops46

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Re: Life in the Jute Mills of Dundee in 19thC
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 10 December 20 13:01 GMT (UK) »
I don't think I have the complete family of William Cleghorn (c 1768 - 1833) and Christian Brown (c 1776 - 1848) due to the gaps between births. I have William marrying Christian 31 March 1797 at Chirnside, Berwick.
I have the following Children:
Peter (1798 - 1873), married Euphemia Renton
Mary (1800 -?)
Janet (1801 - 1876), married Edward Bone
big gap
Jane (1812 - 1869), married Thomas Robertson (my g-g grandparents)
John (1813 - 1874), father of William (1830 - 1895) by Jean Waters the married Margaret Simpson (c 1895 - 1876). He was still married to Margaret Simpson when he died, illegitimate son, William, was the informant.
My great aunt Maggie was the granddaughter of Thomas and Jane Robertson. She was born in Edinburgh but came to Melbourne as a baby. Her family paid for her to return to Scotland in 1892-3 and she kept a diary of the trip during which she visited as many relatives as she could. Her daughter later typed the diaries which have since been lost but several copies of the typed version survive and they have provided a wealth of information.
I am in Melbourne. May I ask your whereabouts?
Cheers
Russell

Offline Keith Sherwood

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Re: Life in the Jute Mills of Dundee in 19thC
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 10 December 20 13:38 GMT (UK) »
Russell,
It must be getting late in the day where you are then, but thanks very much for getting back to me again so swiftly.  I've just come back to this CLEGHORN puzzle after 12 years away from it, and there's so much inaccurate new stuff on Ancestry, where I have been looking.  Plus you seem to have to pay extra fees to actually see the original Scottish records.
I'm rather looking at what Ancestry say still on those Public Member trees, but it appears that William CLEGHORN (1778-1833) was the son of possibly a second marriage of his father Patrick "Peter" CLEGHORN (1744-1793) to Janet WRIGHT b. 1744, with a wedding date of 01-05-1777.  There seem to be elder siblings Robert b.1772, Helen "Nelly" b.1774 and Alexander b. 1776, presumably by a previous marriage.
But I cannot without any certainty say what the exact provenance of any of this is without the primary evidence in front of me.
I live in Cambridge, England, just across the road from a very good friend of mine who had less time on his hands than I did 12 years ago (I had already retired from paid employment, and he had not), and for whom I said I would look into his CLEGHORN tree.
My near neighbour is directly descended through William's (1830-1895) son William (1857-1928) and through his youngest son Harry CLEGHORN (1900-1968).
The which John, which John marriage - either 1832 or 1836 - does not indeed affect his direct lineage, it's simply about me presenting him with a (fairly) accurate tree!
Keith
...and reading through things on here again, that sisters SIMPSON connection between Margaret and Isabella just about QED's it for me that it is the marriage to  Margaret in 1832 that is the genuine link.  Especially with Isabella marrying into the Bonthron family and bringing up William CLEGHORN as their own.
Just goes to show how one person can post an inaccurate, poorly researched "fact" on those Ancestry trees, and people just add the info to their own trees without questioning it.  As I was guilty of almost doing for my friendacrosstheroad, actually!

Offline Keith Sherwood

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Re: Life in the Jute Mills of Dundee in 19thC
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 10 December 20 13:47 GMT (UK) »
...oh, and by comparison, the only  dates I have for the children of William and Christian(a) are:
Peter, b.21-01-1798
Mary, b.01-06-1800
Janet, b.1806
Up till now, no sighting of your gt-gt-aunt Jane
John, b.06-03-1813

At the moment of conception of William, b.29-01-1830,  young father to be John must have been only just sweet sixteen!
Keith


Offline coops46

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Re: Life in the Jute Mills of Dundee in 19thC
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 10 December 20 23:58 GMT (UK) »
Jane Cleghorn was born c 1812. Her marriage and death registrations both give her parents names as William Cleghorn and Christian (Christina) Brown. Back in 2003 I found her baptism in December 1812 but I neglected to record where I found it, having just started my research.
I use Ancestry.com as little as possible and find that most trees have errors, often compounded by others copying them and tacking them onto their own trees. My source for most of my Scottish family is Scotlands People.
This is an excerpt from Maggie's diary from her stay in Dundee, September 1892, in which she visit's your friend's ancestor:

Wednesday 14th.   James the youngest son, called this morning to meet me, he has not long been married. About 11 o’clock, Tina, Mary & I went down to do some shopping, & see a little of Dundee. It is a very smoky place, owing to so much manufacturing going on, & is not so pretty as Aberdeen. The girls pointed out to me the chief objects of interest, during our walk. On the way home we called on Mrs Wm. Cleghorn, but found her out, we saw her two youngest children, pretty wee things. We are to go there to our tea tomorrow night. I had letters from Grandma today telling me of the death of Mr Hayes of Barrhead. Mr. Malcolm, Tina’s future husband, was here this evening. He seems a very nice gentleman, is fair, & very good-looking. I don’t think the marriage will take place before I leave for Melbourne.

Thursday 15th.      I was knitting most of the forenoon, & in the afternoon Tina & Mary & I took the train into town, did a little shopping then went to Mrs Wm. Cleghorn’s to our tea. There are seven children, the oldest being 9 years of age, so you may be sure we were well entertained. I never met a nicer family of children, it was quite a treat to spend an evening among them, they were so polite & well-behaved. Mr Malcolm came during the evening, & after a few games of whist we went home.


Cheers
Russell

Offline Keith Sherwood

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Re: Life in the Jute Mills of Dundee in 19thC
« Reply #14 on: Friday 11 December 20 08:06 GMT (UK) »
Thank you so much for those excerpts from your great-aunt Maggie's diary of 14th-15th September 1892.  This is genuine family history, that properly illuminates the lives of our ancestors!
Looking back to 2008, I think I too must have been subscribing to Scotland's People then, and was able to look directly at primary sources such as Census pages and BMD Certificates.  Those Ancestry family trees are a complete minefield.  My friendacrosstheroad is most grateful to your input, and now that he has retired from work too it is his intention to travel north soon to Dundee and Chirnside to find out as much as he can about his CLEGHORN past.
When and if this Covid pandemic eases up enough for him to do so.
I think the story of William CLEGHORN (1830-1895) is quite an amazing one, and a very good book could be written about his life, and how the efforts of one man in Victorian times in Scotland could completely transform the fortunes of a family.
Very many thanks again,
Keith

Offline coops46

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Re: Life in the Jute Mills of Dundee in 19thC
« Reply #15 on: Friday 11 December 20 09:11 GMT (UK) »
The 'Tina' Maggie refers is Christina Brown Cleghorn (1864-1948). She married Edward Malcolm (1868-1897) in Fort William, Bengal, India in 1893. As far as I know they only had one child before Edward died, Elizabeth Rattray Malcolm, born 1897 in Dundee.

Offline Amber28

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Re: Life in the Jute Mills of Dundee in 19thC
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 08 June 23 20:15 BST (UK) »
I am delighted to have found these posts about William Cleghorn. I have just discovered that my g grandfather's sister was married to William Cleghorn Jnr. She was Jannie Reid Whitson. I have a copy of William Jnr's birth certificate stating his father as William Cleghorn, profession confectioner, his mother as Elizabeth Hogg Cleghorn, nee Matthew. William Jnr's date of birth is January 20th 1857. I also have a marriage certificate for William Jnr and Jeannie. They married on 13 September 1882. Jeannie was resident at Rowan Bank, Alyth and William was resident at Logie House Dundee.

Question 1. If I am correct, then does this means that the Mrs Cleghorn of Maggie's diary's (see previous posts) was actually Jeannie Reid Cleghorn (nee Whitson)

Question 2. Where is the information about William Cleghorn Senior and his rise to fortune in Dundee?

I am very interested to find out all about William Cleghorn sir because Jeannie's brother, James Freer Whitson, my g grandfather inherited a lot of money following the death of his father, James Whitson,  at Bardmony Bank Alyth and he went to New Zealand to farm. Sadly, he lost his money and came back with tail between his legs but William Cleghorn, his brother-in-law gave him a job working in a mill. From what I have read on this site, William Cleghorn sir was  somewhat amazing, having come from illegitimacy to mill ownership but please can someone point me to the references for this? I would love to read about him

Many thanks

Angie