Author Topic: HARRIS, SHERRATT, East Anglia  (Read 34834 times)

Offline I forget

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HARRIS, SHERRATT, East Anglia
« on: Monday 07 January 08 14:32 GMT (UK) »
Hello everyone,

I have been researching my fh and my husbands for a few years now, but have avoided doing my mum's side, as I have been waiting to gain more experience before 'tackling' it.  I am hoping to give it a go this year!!

My question is, is there any books or websites that give more info on the Romany gypsies and travelling showmen in the Lincolnshire/East Anglia area?  Especially any that describe the HARRIS families?

When I first started I talked to a kind lady at the FH fair in London (the big one in May) on the Traveller's stand, and she said that Harris was a well known name in E Anglia.  She gave me a title of a book that included Harris's, but I've lost the reference now.

My cousin has done some research, but exclusively locally to Boston/area, and said that she could trace the Sherratt's back, but was at a loss with the Harris's.   Any hints and tips would be welcome!!!

My Grandfather was Walter Sherratt and was a showman,
My Grandmother was Sylvester Harris, and they lived in Boston, Lincs from WW2 time onwards (in a house).  They ran a drapery business (I think).  I don't know when they came to settle in a house, though there were still many relatives in caravans at this stage. 

Many of my relatives are buried in the Cemetary in Boston, but on contacting the local FHS it seems there is no index available of the cemetry as yet.

Any ideas and pointers would be appreciated. 
(I don't live in the area, btw)

Cindy
LANCASHIRE: Briscoe, Taylor, Hamilton, Cutts, Mousdell, Dixon, Fairclough, Dingle, Pennington, Ingham, Martin, Pinnington, Haselden, Molyneux
CHESHIRE/DENBEIGHSHIRE: Briscoe, Gibson, Tudor

SCOTLAND: Hunt, Murray, Docherty, Malley, Cameron, Colman, Middleton, Mason, Drummond, Gourdale, Fraser

East Anglia/East Midlands/Traveller: Harris, Gray, Thorpe, Sherratt, Sly, (Twigdon, Fendick, Clarke) Jackson, Rowe

Offline CitizenSmith

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Re: HARRIS, SHERRATT, East Anglia
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 16 January 08 17:36 GMT (UK) »
The Harris book you refer to might be The Story of Harris's Fun Fairs: Eastern Counties, Midlands and Beyond by Ken Page. Does that sound like it? I have an address for the author/publisher. Or you could try googling for it.

What year was your Sylvester Harris born?
Smith - East Anglia & Lancashire
Taylor - East Anglia
Draper
Hope
Shaw
Gray
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"Borrow's Gypsies": the people that the novelist George Borrow (1803-1881) knew and wrote about

Offline I forget

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Re: HARRIS, SHERRATT, East Anglia
« Reply #2 on: Friday 18 January 08 10:42 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for replying

It sounds very interesting, though not the publication I was after.  I have found several references to it by Googling, thank you  :)  Iam interested in anything at all, including general books on travellers and the routes taken/fairs etc, in East Anglia. I thought some background reading might help in trying to locate sources to find them, if the BMD certs prove tricky. 

The one I was after was probably only one of those small booklets that you get from FHS.  I think I will need to contact the Traveller FHS (and have another good look, my research is in dire need of a big sort out anyway).   

I will post if I find the title. 

With regards to Sylvester Harris, she died in 1982 in her 80's, so I'm assuming she was born round 1900.  I haven't really started researching properly yet, I admit, I only have my mother's birth certificate at the moment.  I need to save up!!!

Cindyx
.
LANCASHIRE: Briscoe, Taylor, Hamilton, Cutts, Mousdell, Dixon, Fairclough, Dingle, Pennington, Ingham, Martin, Pinnington, Haselden, Molyneux
CHESHIRE/DENBEIGHSHIRE: Briscoe, Gibson, Tudor

SCOTLAND: Hunt, Murray, Docherty, Malley, Cameron, Colman, Middleton, Mason, Drummond, Gourdale, Fraser

East Anglia/East Midlands/Traveller: Harris, Gray, Thorpe, Sherratt, Sly, (Twigdon, Fendick, Clarke) Jackson, Rowe


Offline CitizenSmith

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Re: HARRIS, SHERRATT, East Anglia
« Reply #3 on: Friday 18 January 08 11:31 GMT (UK) »
I have a marriage certicate of a Sylvester Thorpe who married a John Harris in 1898 in King's Lynn. They might have gone on to have a daughter named Sylvester - I'll see what I can find out. (I'm interested in the Thorpes as a side-line!) Happy to send you full details from the cert and a newspaper report on the wedding if you think it's relevant.

Perhaps the book the Romany and Traveller FHS told you about was  A Calendar of Fairs and Markets in the 19th Century by Pat Loveridge? This plots out, county by county, the locations of the type of places where Gypsies and Fairground folk tended to congregate and trade. All the details are on the Society's website.

Sharon
Smith - East Anglia & Lancashire
Taylor - East Anglia
Draper
Hope
Shaw
Gray
Boswell
Lovell
Robinson
Chilcott
All Blackpool Gypsies
"Royal Epping Forest Gypsies": ball-giving group
"Borrow's Gypsies": the people that the novelist George Borrow (1803-1881) knew and wrote about

Offline I forget

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Re: HARRIS, SHERRATT, East Anglia
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 20 January 08 13:12 GMT (UK) »
Hi Sharon

After a big sort through, I've found the reference, and indeed you were right first time!  It was the Harris's funfairs one.  The Loveridge title also sounds of interest. 

I notice there are some Harris's and Thorpes in caravans together on the 1901 cenus in Huntingdon.  I presume you have that?

I think I need to get Sylvester and Walter's Marriage cert, then I'll post again and let you know if John and Sylvester looks likely as Sylvester's parents.   This may take a while, due to low post Xmas funds! 

Btw, my full name, Cynthia, is supposed to be apassed down gypsy one, my mother said that she knew other older Romanys (family?) called Cynthi (prounounced Cynth- eye).   So if this name crops up, it could be another clue. (also Lemontina was a cousin or something)

Thanks again.  :)

Cindy
LANCASHIRE: Briscoe, Taylor, Hamilton, Cutts, Mousdell, Dixon, Fairclough, Dingle, Pennington, Ingham, Martin, Pinnington, Haselden, Molyneux
CHESHIRE/DENBEIGHSHIRE: Briscoe, Gibson, Tudor

SCOTLAND: Hunt, Murray, Docherty, Malley, Cameron, Colman, Middleton, Mason, Drummond, Gourdale, Fraser

East Anglia/East Midlands/Traveller: Harris, Gray, Thorpe, Sherratt, Sly, (Twigdon, Fendick, Clarke) Jackson, Rowe

Offline CitizenSmith

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Re: HARRIS, SHERRATT, East Anglia
« Reply #5 on: Monday 21 January 08 11:59 GMT (UK) »
I've often seen the name Sinfi or Sinfie as a Gypsy name in different families.

On the newspaper report about Sylvester and John Harris' marriage - I've discovered it's already on this list: check the topic THORPE...travellers and hawkers.

Sharon
Smith - East Anglia & Lancashire
Taylor - East Anglia
Draper
Hope
Shaw
Gray
Boswell
Lovell
Robinson
Chilcott
All Blackpool Gypsies
"Royal Epping Forest Gypsies": ball-giving group
"Borrow's Gypsies": the people that the novelist George Borrow (1803-1881) knew and wrote about

Offline I forget

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Re: HARRIS, SHERRATT, East Anglia
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 24 January 08 11:52 GMT (UK) »
Hi Sharon,

Thanks for that, very interesting, certainly gives a vivid picture, even if it turns out not to be the branch of the Harris family I am interested in. 

I did wonder how Sinfi / Sinfie was spelt/written down. 

Cindy
LANCASHIRE: Briscoe, Taylor, Hamilton, Cutts, Mousdell, Dixon, Fairclough, Dingle, Pennington, Ingham, Martin, Pinnington, Haselden, Molyneux
CHESHIRE/DENBEIGHSHIRE: Briscoe, Gibson, Tudor

SCOTLAND: Hunt, Murray, Docherty, Malley, Cameron, Colman, Middleton, Mason, Drummond, Gourdale, Fraser

East Anglia/East Midlands/Traveller: Harris, Gray, Thorpe, Sherratt, Sly, (Twigdon, Fendick, Clarke) Jackson, Rowe

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Re: HARRIS, SHERRATT, East Anglia
« Reply #7 on: Friday 01 February 08 10:17 GMT (UK) »
Hi Sharon,

Just to let you know that I have now got my grandparents marriage cert, and indeed, Sylvester's father is John HARRIS.  I haven't found a convincing reference to her birth, but it would be in 1901.  It is possible (but no-where near certain!)  that the Sylvester and John  I referred to in the 1901 census are her parents ( with THORPEs amongst others in neighbouring caravans) and that they could be the right age to be the ones mentioned in the vivid description of the marriage in the paper.

however, as exciting as that would be, I am aware that they may not be my great grandparents, as I believe there were many marriages between gypsy families and the same names were repeated many times. 

But it certainly has given me inspiration to continue,  I will be asking my dad if he remembers my great grandmother's name (she was still alive when I was a baby)  thank you.  :)

Cindy
LANCASHIRE: Briscoe, Taylor, Hamilton, Cutts, Mousdell, Dixon, Fairclough, Dingle, Pennington, Ingham, Martin, Pinnington, Haselden, Molyneux
CHESHIRE/DENBEIGHSHIRE: Briscoe, Gibson, Tudor

SCOTLAND: Hunt, Murray, Docherty, Malley, Cameron, Colman, Middleton, Mason, Drummond, Gourdale, Fraser

East Anglia/East Midlands/Traveller: Harris, Gray, Thorpe, Sherratt, Sly, (Twigdon, Fendick, Clarke) Jackson, Rowe

Offline CitizenSmith

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Re: HARRIS, SHERRATT, East Anglia
« Reply #8 on: Friday 01 February 08 13:43 GMT (UK) »
Hi Cindy

Good to hear it all seems to be fitting together - but obviously you can't take anything for granted yet.

Where did your Sylvester's marriage take place? And what was her residence given as?

I believe I have some notes filed somewhere about this branch of this particular branch of the Harrises, given to me by Ken Page, the author of the Harris book. I'll see if I can hunt them out. From memory, they were also associated with a family called Thompson who were famous for rock-making and had a stall at Wisbech market (Cambridgeshire) for many years as well as attending fairs. There's also a connection with a place called Brownhills near Birmingham.

Does any of this fit with your family?

Sharon



Smith - East Anglia & Lancashire
Taylor - East Anglia
Draper
Hope
Shaw
Gray
Boswell
Lovell
Robinson
Chilcott
All Blackpool Gypsies
"Royal Epping Forest Gypsies": ball-giving group
"Borrow's Gypsies": the people that the novelist George Borrow (1803-1881) knew and wrote about