Author Topic: HARRIS, SHERRATT, East Anglia  (Read 35194 times)

Offline deb usa

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,394
    • View Profile
Re: HARRIS, SHERRATT, East Anglia
« Reply #18 on: Friday 14 March 08 18:06 GMT (UK) »
Hi ...I hope I am not repeating info that others may have;

This is the 1871 census of james Thorpe b 1851, father of Sylvester  who married John Harris.

1871
Crown Inn. St Paul, Cambridge
James Thorpe head 53 traveller b cambs
Eliza wife 53 b finchley, Middlesex
JAMES son 19 traveller b Cambs, Pampisford
Providence dau 17 b Milden Hall, Suffolk
Emanuel son 15 b Suffolk
Roads of May niece 11 b Shropshire ..... what a FABULOUS name  ;D
Ambrose son 6

deb
Travellers = Penfold, Orchard, James
Devon = Middleton,  Waterfield, Adams, Clark/e, Gould
Cornwall = Palmer, Carnarton, Slack/Smith. Morris/h
Wales, New Quay = James, Evans


All UK census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Cuxwold

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 38
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: HARRIS, SHERRATT, East Anglia
« Reply #19 on: Saturday 15 March 08 17:28 GMT (UK) »
Hi
the earlest census record I can find is for 1861
the parents are James and Elizabeth (nee Buttress).
The children were...Edmund ( my grt grandfather) bn 1838.Ambrose bn 1841..Edengaile bn 1845..Eliza bn 1848..Joseph bn 1849..Oliver bn 1847..Jmaes bn 1855..Holland bn 1850..Mace bn 1858 and Rhoda Herde, recorded as niece.
Edendgail married Henry Coxall,
Eliza married Mark Wilson.
Holland married Edward Frankland.
James married Eliza , I have no surname.
Ambrose married Leviathan Draper.
Edmund married Ann Cook
The Harris connection is via the daughter of James and Eliza, Sylvester ,who married John Harris
John Harris's sister Euphemia Harris married Hiram Wilson, the son of Eliza Thorpe and Mark Wilson.
John Harris's parents were John Harris and Abigail Gray.
The James Thorpe, parent from 1861, was the son of a James Thorpe and Silveter Gray.

Offline I forget

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 79
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
    • View Profile
Re: HARRIS, SHERRATT, East Anglia
« Reply #20 on: Sunday 16 March 08 15:12 GMT (UK) »
A big thankyou to everyone who has posted recently,

I've been away, plus following up some leads on my husbands family. 
Just to let you know I really do appreciate all the info, I will post again once I've had time to digest all this,   :)  my head is still spinning!!   :o

Can anyone find the Sherratts?  The only ones with a Walter approx 1yr old in 1901 do not look like travellers or showmen.  They may be near Wellingborough as this is where the most likely birth index record is.  (his dad is John Sherratt listed as a general dealer, just like John Harris on Sylvester Harris junior and Walter Sherratts s marriage cert)

Please don't worry about butting in, any info which is related to Harris/Thorpe or the Sherratts is welcome.  I can record it all then see how things fit (or not) later on.

Cheers
Cindy  ;D
LANCASHIRE: Briscoe, Taylor, Hamilton, Cutts, Mousdell, Dixon, Fairclough, Dingle, Pennington, Ingham, Martin, Pinnington, Haselden, Molyneux
CHESHIRE/DENBEIGHSHIRE: Briscoe, Gibson, Tudor

SCOTLAND: Hunt, Murray, Docherty, Malley, Cameron, Colman, Middleton, Mason, Drummond, Gourdale, Fraser

East Anglia/East Midlands/Traveller: Harris, Gray, Thorpe, Sherratt, Sly, (Twigdon, Fendick, Clarke) Jackson, Rowe


Offline Lesley1

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 29
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
HARRIS, LAMB, GRAY, OSBORNE, SIELEY TRAVELLERS EAST ANGLIA
« Reply #21 on: Saturday 29 March 08 11:29 GMT (UK) »
Dear All

If any one can let me know where Trinity Mayhew HARRIS and his family belongs to this would be fantastic.  Seems like the surnames HARRIS, GRAY, LAMB, SIELEY, OSBORNE all connect with each other some how.
Love to hear from those who connect with all these.
Lesley


Descendants of Trinity Mayhew Harris

1.  TRINITY MAYHEW1 HARRIS was born Bet. 1824 - 1832 in Linton, Cambridgeshire, and died Dec 1884 in Lyng, Norfolk.  He married MARY ANN ?.  She was born 1834 in Boston, Lincolnshire or Cambridgeshire.

 TRINITY MAYHEW HARRIS:
The 1881 Census
Name: Trinity Harris
Age: 54 
Birth Year: abt 1827 
Relation: Lodger 
Where born: Wickling
Civil Parish: Burnham Westgate 
Add: Front St
Occ: Gen Dealer
 Registration district: Docking 
Elizabeth Farrow 45 
John Farrow 64 
T. Harris 18 
J. Harris 22 
Trinity Harris 54  married
 
Syderstone Parish Register has Trinity as - Trinity May Hugh Harris a Brazier.

TRINITY MAYHEW HARRIS:
Burial: 02 Jan 1885, St Michael, Lyng
Census: 1861, Watton Road, Carbrooke
Living: 1868, Syderstone, Norfolk
Occ: Hawker
   
Children of TRINITY HARRIS and MARY ? are:
   i.   WILLIAM2 HARRIS, b. Abt. 1854, East Dereham.
2.   ii.   GEORGE HARRIS, b. Bet. 1854 - 1856, Ely, Cambridgeshire; d. Abt. Dec 1896, Mitford 4b 181.
3.   iii.   JOHN HARRIS, b. Abt. Mar 1859, Watton, Norfolk; d. Bef. 1916.
   iv.   CHARLES HARRIS, b. Abt. Feb 1861, Carbrooke, Norfolk.
Baptised: 15 Mar 1861, St Peter & St Paul, Carbrooke, Norfolk

   v.   ST SWITHIN TRINITY HARRIS, b. Abt. 1866, Swaffham/Fakenham.
Baptised: 06 Sep 1868, Syderstone parish Church

   vi.   PATIENCE HARRIS, b. Abt. 1867, Norwich, Norfolk.
 Baptised: 06 Sep 1868, Syderstone Parish Church

   vii.   SARAH HARRIS, b. Abt. Jun 1868, Syderstone.
Baptised: 06 Sep 1868, Syderstone Parish Church


2.  GEORGE2 HARRIS (TRINITY MAYHEW1) was born Bet. 1854 - 1856 in Ely, Cambridgeshire, and died Abt. Dec 1896 in Mitford 4b 181.  He married HANNAH MELTON Abt. Jun 1880 in Mitford 4b 472, daughter of WILLIAM MELTON and SUSAN BELL.  She was born 1863 in Whissonsett, and died Abt. Sep 1916 in Mitford 4b 262.

 GEORGE HARRIS and HANNAH MELTON:
Marriage: Abt. Jun 1880, Mitford 4b 472
   
Children of GEORGE HARRIS and HANNAH MELTON are:
   i.   JOHN3 HARRIS, b. Abt. Mar 1881, Whissonsett; m. FLORA ?, Bef. 1901; b. Abt. 1880, Litcham, Norfolk.

 JOHN HARRIS:
Census: 1901, Boarding at Edward Melton b Whissonsett in Rawmarsh, Yorkshire
Occ: 1901, General Labourer

 Marriage: Bef. 1901

   ii.   MABEL HARRIS, b. Abt. Jun 1883, Mileham; d. Abt. Mar 1905, Mitford 4b 193.
   iii.   WILLIAM HARRIS, b. Abt. Jun 1891, Whissonsett.
   iv.   GEORGE HARRIS, b. Abt. Jun 1896, Whissonsett.
   v.   DORA HARRIS, b. Abt. Jun 1899, Whissonsett.


3.  JOHN2 HARRIS (TRINITY MAYHEW1) was born Abt. Mar 1859 in Watton, Norfolk, and died Bef. 1916.  He married PATIENCE OSBORN Aft. 1881, daughter of DANIEL OSBORN and SUSAN GRAY.  She was born 01 Apr 1861 in Ber Street, St John Sepulchre, Norwich, and died 12 Nov 1908 in Grimstone, Norfolk.

 JOHN HARRIS:
Births Mar 1859
HARRIS John Wayland 4b 286

Possible Deaths Sep 1914   
 Ray  John  55  Blything  4a 1022

 JOHN HARRIS:
Census: 1891, Near Aylsham Road in Van at Felmingham, Norfolk
Occ: Horse dealer

 PATIENCE OSBORN:
Cause of Death: Confinement 28 October 1908/Septicaemia/Cardiac Failire
Medical Information: wife of John Osborne a licensed hawker widower of the deceased present at the death Grimstone 13.11.1908.    certified by C S Woodward M.R.C.S.

 JOHN HARRIS and PATIENCE OSBORN:
Marriage: Aft. 1881
   
Children of JOHN HARRIS and PATIENCE OSBORN are:
   i.   DANIEL3 LAMB, b. 13 May 1883, Bradfield Road, North Walsham, Erpingham 4b 64; d. Abt. Jul 1945, East Dereham.

 DANIEL LAMB:
Jun 1883   
 Lamb  Daniel     Erpingham  4b 64

   ii.   DELIA (GOLIA) LAMB, b. 30 Nov 1884, Aylsham, Norfolk.

 DELIA (GOLIA) LAMB:
On Golia's birth certificate Patience maiden name is Harris.

4.   iii.   SAUNDERS LAMB, b. 05 Dec 1886, Briston, Norfolk; d. 24 May 1946, Norfolk & Norwich Hospital.
   iv.   AMOS LAMB, b. Abt. Mar 1889, Erpingham 4b 73; d. Abt. Sep 1906, Erpingham 4b 40.
5.   v.   PATIENCE OSBORN RAY, b. 28 Mar 1891, Felmingham, Norfolk; d. Abt. Sep 1956, Wisbech.
6.   vi.   ELLEN RAY, b. Abt. Mar 1893, Ridlington, Smallburgh 4b 60; d. Abt. Sep 1973, Wisbech 4a 322.
   vii.   BENJAMIN RAY, b. 15 Sep 1899, Great Ellingham, Norfolk; d. 21 Jul 1965, East Dereham, Norfolk; m. MAY VICTORIA WEALES, Abt. Sep 1921, Mitford 4b 649; b. Abt. Jun 1897, East Dereham, Norfolk; d. Abt. Mar 1965, East Dereham.

 MAY VICTORIA WEALES:
Burial: 03 Mar 1965, East Dereham Cemetery

 BENJAMIN RAY and MAY WEALES:
Marriage: Abt. Sep 1921, Mitford 4b 649

   viii.   GENTA RAY, b. 15 Apr 1902, Lessingham, Norfolk.
   ix.   FANNY OSBORN, b. 28 Oct 1908, Grimstone, Norfolk; d. Nov 1908, Grimstone, Norfolk.
   x.   JANE OSBORN, b. 28 Oct 1908, Grimstone, Norfolk; d. Nov 1908, Grimstone, Norfolk.


4.  SAUNDERS3 LAMB (JOHN2 HARRIS, TRINITY MAYHEW1) was born 05 Dec 1886 in Briston, Norfolk2, and died 24 May 1946 in Norfolk & Norwich Hospital.  He married ROSE ELLEN ELLIOTT 01 Mar 1918 in Register Office, E. Dereham, Norfolk, daughter of JAMES ELLIOTT and ELIZABETH PARSLEY.  She was born 27 Jan 1898 in East Dereham, Norfolk, and died 18 Dec 1959 in Dereham Hospital, Norfolk.

 SAUNDERS LAMB:
Known as Sidney John Wray
Births Dec 1886
Lamb  Saunders     Erpingham  4b 76


Norfolk: Freezer, Winter, Tye, Twigg, Harman, Osborn, Sieley, Wray, Gray, Saddleton/Sadler, Ray, Elliott, Copling, Newstead, Parsley, Payne, Purple, Watkins, Atmore, Butters, Boyce,

Offline An65

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 706
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: HARRIS, SHERRATT, East Anglia
« Reply #22 on: Saturday 29 March 08 19:53 GMT (UK) »
This convo so interesting, The Shaws,  Thorpes, Loveridges and Harrises married into the Grays. I havent looked into this side nearly enough to know much, but I have some refs which may prove useful to anyone researching the Harris Family.

Silva Gray (who became known as Silvester Gray) c.1793 Orwell Cam married Stephen Thorpe. I question if Stephen Thorpe corresponds to James Thorpe who married Elizabeth Buttress. Silva had a sister, Dinah who married Jim Shaw.
Silva and Dinah were daughters of Fowk/Founess Gray and Mary and its possible he (Fowk), had a brother Robert who married Mary Leighton and had a son Robert (b.1799 Isleham Cam) who married Sarah Harris (b.cir 1804 Cilington Cam).

Robert and Sarah had a son William b.cir 1839 c.1842 Stoke Ferry, who married Silvester Thorpe b.cir 1851 and had a daughter Beatrice in 1869.

An Ambrose Thorpe Gray c.1796 Bottisham Cam, s/o Wm Gray and Retty Smith married Maria Harris d/o John c.1815 Bedfordshire m1850 St Giles Cambridge.

Dinah Gray who married Jim Shaw had several children known as Thorpe and Shaw...

Silvester c.1819 Wicken Ex, married Stephen Loveridge
Cresana c.1818 Stotfold Bdf
Councillette b.cir 1820 married Jasper Shaw
Aquila (aka Amelia or Acorn) b.cir 1825 married James Andrews
Susannah c1826 Wrestlingworth Bdf married Jonas Shaw.

One more thing that may prove to be of interest:

There was a story somewhere heaven only knows where I cant remember about Roads of May. She was a Hearn, and became known as Rhoda because no one could bear to hear her name. I think the story went something like they pulled into private land and the farmer came out to tell them to move on, and the mother was in labour, and was dying, and indeed despite the farmers wifes best intents, did die, leaving Roads of May without her mum.

Someone like Sharon (Citizen Smith) might be able to shed more light on this one. I really cant remember the story that well, but I know I read it somewhere way back when.


Offline Lesley1

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 29
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: HARRIS, SHERRATT, East Anglia
« Reply #23 on: Saturday 29 March 08 20:33 GMT (UK) »
Hi
I take it this is the marriage

Marriages Jun 1865   (>99%)
~~~~~~~~
 
Buttris  Sylvester    Norwich  4b 201   
GRAY  William     Norwich  4b 201
Norfolk: Freezer, Winter, Tye, Twigg, Harman, Osborn, Sieley, Wray, Gray, Saddleton/Sadler, Ray, Elliott, Copling, Newstead, Parsley, Payne, Purple, Watkins, Atmore, Butters, Boyce,

Offline CitizenSmith

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 282
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
    • View Profile
Re: HARRIS, SHERRATT, East Anglia
« Reply #24 on: Saturday 29 March 08 20:54 GMT (UK) »
'Roads of May' Heron is mentioned in the Reverend George Hall's book The Gypsy's Parson (published 1916). He gives her parents as Alfred Heron and Becky, Becky being the sister of Eliza Bettridge/Buttriss/Butteridge.

The story Hall tells is that Alfred and Becky were travelling in Shropshire. Becky was about to give birth and when she did, the child was a girl. Becky was very ill after the birth and sadly died. The parson who came to give her last rites baptised the baby as 'Flower of May' because as the Alfred said: "The wagon was under a may-tree and the flowers were dropping on the grass like snow." The local lord of the manor and his wife wanted to adopt the baby and made Alfred the offer of a bag of a hundred sovereigns but he wouldn't take it. Then later when Alfred died, the little girl was taken in by the parents of the man who told the story to Hall and as he said "They changed her name to Rodi for they couldn't abide to hear the name Flower of May no more; it reminded them too sadly of them as had gone."

So that's the explanation - only slightly wrong: Rose of May?? Roads of May?? Rather than Flower of May?? But the other odd thing is that Hall gives his informant the name of Ladin – but I now believe this is Ambrose Thorpe. This is perhaps confirmed in another part of the book where Hall says that 'Ladin's' wife was a Draper. Hall names her 'Juli' - but Ambrose's wife was indeed a Draper, named Leviathan! Can't really fathom why Hall has hidden their identities, when other characters in his book seem to have their own correct names.

Rodi/Rhoda/Roads of May eventually became the partner of Walter Hope, the son of Golden Hope and (I believe) Mary Smith, the latter being a many times great-aunt of mine.

Sharon
Smith - East Anglia & Lancashire
Taylor - East Anglia
Draper
Hope
Shaw
Gray
Boswell
Lovell
Robinson
Chilcott
All Blackpool Gypsies
"Royal Epping Forest Gypsies": ball-giving group
"Borrow's Gypsies": the people that the novelist George Borrow (1803-1881) knew and wrote about

Offline Lesley1

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 29
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: HARRIS, SHERRATT, East Anglia
« Reply #25 on: Saturday 29 March 08 21:51 GMT (UK) »
The IGI has the Gray's of Isleham Cambridge

IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
  British Isles
Search Results  | Download 

~~~~~~~~
 
   
FOUNDNESS GRAY Pedigree
  Male     
   

~~~~~~~~
Event(s):
 Birth: 
 Christening:  06 JAN 1811   Isleham, Cambridge, England
 
~~~~~~~~
Parents:
  Father:  RILEY GRAY  Family
  Mother:  LYDIA     
 
 
Therefore he was not the brother of Robert Gray who married Sarah Harris. 
Norfolk: Freezer, Winter, Tye, Twigg, Harman, Osborn, Sieley, Wray, Gray, Saddleton/Sadler, Ray, Elliott, Copling, Newstead, Parsley, Payne, Purple, Watkins, Atmore, Butters, Boyce,

Offline An65

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 706
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: HARRIS, SHERRATT, East Anglia
« Reply #26 on: Sunday 30 March 08 02:13 BST (UK) »
First of all, Thanks Sharon I knew Id heard that story somewhere. You are a superstar. No wonder it seemed familiar - The Revd George Hall and the Gypsys Parson were read by myself abt 10 years ago. (or more!) I know its online now too.

Alfred Heron and Becky must surely translate to Alfred Heron and Rebecca Butteridge - or Butteress!!!

This would be the same family as that of Crimea "Nukes" Heron - and Alfred as named on the Heron Pedigree is none other than John Hearn b.cir 1811 Holbeach Lin according to census info regarding Crimeas family. What his real name was heaven alone knows, but Alfred = John in this instance.

As for
"FOUNDNESS GRAY Pedigree
  Male     
~~~~~~~~
Event(s):
Birth: 
Christening:  06 JAN 1811   Isleham, Cambridge, England "

s/o Riley Gray and Lydia Sly - tjis is an earlier Founess Gray. I have  details of his family (ie both Riley and son Founess)

This particular Founess married Constant/Constance Smith. The earlier one married a Mary.

It goes something like this:

Charles Gray b.cir 1763 Ashwell Hrts s/o Codilla married Aquila Smith and had
Riley in 1789 Fen Ditton Cam married Lydia Sly d/o James Sly and Sophia Gray b.1790 Barrington Cam.

Riley and Lydia Had:

Lydia married John Brand
Foundness married Constance/Constant Smith
Riley (1812-14)
Edward (1812-13)
Sophia (1815-18)
Mahala
Riley m. Harriet Steadman
Nancy
Sarah

The earlier Fowk/Founess b cir 1755 buried 1828 St Giles Cambridge married a Mary and an Ann.

He had:

Ambrose
Constance married Meshack Smith
Dinah married "Big: Jim Shaw
Silva married Stephen (James?) Thorpe
Eleanor
Holland d.1828 aged 31 Wood Ditton
and Thomas 1798 GT Shelford Cam (my presumed 4grt grandad).
who had a liason with Charlotte (later m. Charles Gray) which produced my 3xgt Grandad Christopher 1815 Thurlby By Bourne Lin, before settling with his permanent wife, Susan Gray d/o Thomas and Susannah Faben (ie sister of Piramus and John Budd "Jack" Gray. as well as Maria married Israel Gray and Esther married Bill Tansey.