1861 -TATTUMs from BAGILLT, HOLYWELL

[Peterej]

Not sure if you have thes ( I'm a little confused - nothing new)
Mary Tattum born 8/4/1834 and baptised 20/4/1834 Chester Road Wesleyan Chapel, Holywell- parents George (collier) & Elizabeth (nee Hughes)
parent's residence is Bagillt but father's residence before marriage Holywell.

and

Isaac and Uble Tatum (twins) born 22/5/1836 and baptised 26/5/1836 Mold Bethel Independent Chapel- mother Caroline (spinster) of Wrexham Street (Mold?)

Peter

[Paul]

Hello again,
Sorry to say I didn't understand the baptisms of John Tattum c 1898. and Rebecca Ellis c. 1904. Their marriage c. 1859.

Bagillt marriage. April 9 1859.
John Tattum(X) full age. bachelor. Labourer. Bagillt. Father, Francis. Collier.
Rebecca Ellis(X). full age. spinster. Bagillt. Father, Robert. Labourer.
Witnesses. Llewlyn Hughes & Hannah Jones

Baptisms of the children of John & Rebecca Tattum.
Aug 15 1859. Francis. (close call )
Aug 29 1867. Selina Ann.
July 22 1868. Rebecca.
June 10 1871. John.
Aug 28 1878. George.

Is this Rebecca b 1868.
Marriage Jan 30 1895.
John Davies.26 bachelor. Mariner. Bagillt. Father John (Deceased. )
Rebecca Tattum. 26. Spinster. Bagillt. Father John. Lab.
Witnesses. Stephen Davies. and Mary Ashford Tattum.

Baptism. Sep 29 1895. Mary Edith Davies D/O John & Rebecca. Bagillt. Sailor.

Bagillt marriage June 8 1878.
Robert Tattum(X) full age. bachelor. Collier. Bagillt. Father, Francis. Collier
Elizabeth Williams(X). full age. spinster. Bagillt. Father, John. Shoemaker.
Witnesses. John Tattum(X) & Elizabeth Jane Tattum.

Baptisms of the children of Robert & Elizabeth Tattum.
Aug 21 1878. Sarah Ann.( )
Nov 21 1881. Francis.
May 1 1885. John William.
May 29 1889. Emrys.

There are marriages for Margaret 1854, Ann 1862 and Mary 1864. D/O George Tattum.
Ben 1863 & Elizabeth 1864 children of William Tattum.
Let me know if you want them

Holywell P.Rs start 1677.

Paul

[Ninian]

Hello Peter

Mary Tattum - yes she's one of George's brood (he's the eldset of my 3 Tattum brothers) - I have her (dau of George & Eliz.) on the 41 and 51 censuses.  She was recorded as 6 in 1841 so the age is spot on.  It's her alright.  So at least some of them had gone nonconformist by the 1830s.  

Now, Isaac and Ubel (Ubel!?!? - could they mean Able??), -  they are a different matter. I've not come across them before. Have just had a quick look and can't immediately find them - but I have got 2 links with Tattums in the Mold area (one just says 'Mold',  the other is Gwenaffield - though that link is later than 1830s). I shall investigate further ..........  

Many thanks Peter

Ninian

[Ninian]

Hello Paul

Gosh!!  I was just going to look for Peter's find of the Tattum twins from Mold ......  And now all this.  Looks brilliant stuff.

I shall be going to ground for a while to digest it all .............

Back not so shortly!

Ninian

[Peterej]

there is a death recorded of an Isaac Tatum in 1838 on freebmd and a marriage of a Caroline Tatham in June 1839 on Freebmd. No sign of the twin.

Peter

[Ninian]

Hello Paul and Peter

Peter - Poor Isaac didn't last long then and Caroline couldn't have been too old either when she died. So far I've failed to find any connection with the Tattum twins from Mold - but as Ubel/Able might have lasted longer than his twin and his mother I shall have a further look for him.  Many thanks

Paul - First of all a profuse apology re my original reference to:
"John Tattum    Baptism c. 1898
Rebecca Ellis   Baptism c. 1904"
I'd cut n pasted in their death dates not their birth dates which should have read 1835 for both of them.  I have a baptism date of John of 19 July 1835 but as it was, I think, from IGI so might not be right.  I have nothing other than an approx date of birth for Rebecca of 1835.  So not surprising you didn't understand what I meant - it took me a while to work out what I'd done!

Everything else fits pretty well perfectly.

I had Francis' birth as 1861; your bapt record gave 1859 - but I'd worked his dob out from the 71 census but when I used the the 81 census his dob comes out as 1859 - spot on!  The other kids worked out just right ... and I just had Selina not Selina Ann.

Rebecca's marriage of 1895 worked out neatly too - she was still living at home in '91 but had gone in 1901 and I have her eldest sister (from the census) as Mary A Tattum - so she must be the witness Mary Ashford Tattum.

I've just found John Davies (who married Rebecca) on the census so I should be able to track him back now.

I was a bit dubious about the marriage of Robert to Eliz Williams - as you had given me a burial for Robert Tattum (Burial:  21 October 1841, Holywell aged 4 which fitted well with his bapt in 1837)  but Robert clearly made it past 1841 and as everything else seems to fit well with my other info, I think perhaps the Robert who died either wasn't one of my Tattums or Francis and Elizabeth had another Robert who died and the next son that came along (they were pretty prolific) they named Robert too.  Curious that the register records that the 2 Tattum brothers Robert and John had to make a mark but the daughter Eliz Jane could write.

I hadn't got a thing on Robert and Elizabeth's kids - so that info was good too especially as I had noticed Francis on the census and thought he must be related to my Tattums somewhere as Francis is something of the family name - but I couldn't find out how he fitted in.

Are all the baptisms and marriage from Holywell unless you stated otherwise?

It would be really good to have the marriages of George's daughters and William's 2 children please (well, as you said before, you did offer!!)      

 This has all been brilliant

Ninian

[Peterej]

Hi Ninian

It is a possible marriage for Caroline not a death so you haven't got rid of her yet!!

Peter

[Ninian]

Hello Peter

I was so excited with all this Tattum info I got flustered (happens all the time!)

I'll have a hunt on BMD to see if I can find the husband ......

Thanks

Ninian

[Paul]

Hi Ninian. Bagillt marriages.
Dec 23 1854.
William Hughes(X). 21. Ba. Collier. Bagillt. Father, Edward. Lab.
Margaret Tattum(X). 22. Sp. Bagillt. Father, George. Collier
Witnesses. John Griffiths. &  Mary Tattum(X)

June 2 1862.
Thomas Hughes(X) full age. Ba. Collier. Bagillt. Father, Joseph. Smelter.
Anne Tattum(X) full age. Sp. Bagillt. Father, George. Collier.
Witnesses. William Hughes(X) & Mary Tattum(X) (always the bridesmaid)

Feb 23 1863.
Benjamin Tattum(X) full age. Ba. Collier. The Marsh, Bagillt.
Father, William. Collier.
Elizabeth Jones. full age. Sp. The Marsh, Bagillt. Father, John. Collier.
Witnesses. Humphrey Jones(X) & Phoebe Tattum(X)


July 2 1864.
Joseph Wilson. full age. Ba. Joiner. Bagillt. Father, Thomas. Smelter.
Elizabeth Tattum(X) full age. Sp. Bagillt. Father, William. Collier.
Witnesses. Thomas Wilson & Margaret Tattum(X)

There are two marriages on each page, the next marriage on the page.

July 10 1864.
Edward Morris. of age. Widower. Collier. Flint. Father, John. Collier.
Mary Tattum (X) of age. Sp. Bagillt. Father, George. Collier.
Witnesses. John Tattum & Ann Tattum(X)

Bagillt burials.
John Tattum. Bagillt. Feb 2 1898. age 63 years.
Rebecca Tattum. Bagillt. Jan 19 1904. age 68 years.

I had a look at the Holywell Town Cemetery Memorial Inscriptions Book.
Several Tattums, the earliest one Albert Ashford Tattum 1897-1980 age 83

I found his marriage July 14 1923. Holywell.

Albert Ashford Tattum. 26. Ba. Pump Tester. Whitefield House, Bagillt. Father, Francis. couldn't make out his Occ.
Ethel Littler. 27. Sp. 15, Bagillt St, Holywell. Father, Thomas. Brewer.
Witnesses. I think there were four signatures the only one I could make out was Mary Garland, I think there were two Tattums

What do you think?

Paul.

I just had a look up the thread and Peter's post of the Twins reminded me of what I just happend to come across Today.
Bagillt baptisms
April 2 1843. Elizabeth. D/O Francis & Elizabeth Tattum. Morfa, Bagillt. Fathers Occ, Collier.
April 2 1843. Anne. D/O Francis & Elizabeth Tattum. Morfa, Bagillt. Fathers Occ, Collier.
It didn't say Twins but....

Sorry I should have done this before I posted, had a look on North Wales bmd. Holywell Births 1843 Elizabeth & Ann Tattum HOL/05/37 Twins