Grantham in Manchester

[cathyvall]

As a follow up to a posting I did about Mary Jane Simpson in Lincolnshire, I thought I'd throw this out to Barbara and Ricky and anyone else that wants to comment.  I know this is about the Lancashire area, not Lincolnshire but you were so helpful I would like your opinion if I'm on the right track.  Then I'll post the information on the Lancashire Board to see what they say.

One of the families you told me about might work.  It's the one in Ardwick, Chorlton.

To refresh the information, my grandfather, Walter Grantham was born Feb 27, 1874 or 1875 in Manchester, England.  He did not tell his family his father's name or where his father was born but one Census states England and the other states Ireland.  His mother was Mary (Larthy, Lardy, Clarty or other iterations that sound the same or Mc[all of these]) born about 1845 in England.  He arrived in the U.S. in 1903 (family lore says he went through Canada first).

1881 Census shows in Ardwick, Chorlton a Mary E. Grantham (later changed to Mary J) (born in Brigg, Lincoln about 1845/6) with a son Walter (could have been born in early 1875 in Manchester) married to Thomas (a police captain born in Canada about 1841) and other children.  The part about born in Canada doesn't match because the U.S. Census' state Walter's father was born in England or Ireland but, again, little information about him so that could be wrong?  RH11/3894, Folio 90, Page 37

1891 Census shows in Ardwick, Chorlton a Mary Jane Grantham (born in Brigg, Lincolnshire about 1845/6) with a son Walker (an indexing error?) (could have been born early 1875 in Manchester) and other children.  Mary was a widow and I found a Thomas Grantham (born about 1841) in the Death Index reported in Jan-Feb-Mar 1891.  Walter was 15 so maybe his father dying when he was young resulted in him not talking about him?  Also my grandfather Walter told his grandson that he was a "bad boy" and after getting thrown out of school for fighting he was put in the Royal Navy at age 12 as a galley boy.  If this is the family and the story is true, it might be that Walter hadn't spent much time with his father since age 12?  This 1891 Census states Walter was 15 years old and working as an errand boy.  RG12/3165; Folio 101; Page 2

1901 Census in Ardwick, Chorlton shows a Mary J. Grantham (born in Brigg, Lincolnshire about 1845), a police (can't read the next word) living with one of her sons (Walter is not listed).  Walter would have been 25-26 years old so would likely not be living with his mother at this time.  RG13/3675 Folio 63 Pg 29.  I could not find Walter Grantham in the 1901 Census (if he was at sea, that may be why).  I did find a Walker Grantham born about 1845-1846 living in Ardwick, Chorlton with a wife.  Maybe all the Walter's in the family I am tracing are really Walkers?  But I could not find a birth record for a Walker Grantham although I found a marriage registration for Walker Grantham in Chorlton in Apr-May-Jun 1896.  Maybe I should order the certificate and see what is listed for his mother/father?

1871 Census in Ardwick, Chorlton shows Jane Grantham (she may have gone by Jane then changed it to Mary then to Mary Jane) (born Brie--probably a misindexing of Brigg, Lancashire about 1844) living with her husband Thomas (born in Newfoundland about 1840), a policeman and children (Walter would not have been born yet).  RG10/3977, Folio 118, page 42

I also found in the Birth Index a Walter Grantham registered Oct-Nov-Dec 1875 in Chorlton.  The date seems late for my grandfather and, if I order the certificate, it may prove this is not my grandfather if the actual birthdate is not Feb 27 and, if this is the Walter in the above family but the birthdate is not Feb 27, that probably proves the above family is not my family.

The closest birth index I found for Mary with all the iterations of maiden name was a Mary Larthy registered in Jan-Feb-Mar 1878 (about 2-3 years too early) in Bolton, Greater Manchester.  This could not be the Mary in the above family and is likely not my great grandmother due to the date but I thought I'd mention it.

I also found in the marriage index a Thomas Grantham registered Jan-Feb-Mar 1863 in Stockport, Cheshire, Lancashire.  This fits with the above family where the first child was born about 1864 in Cheshire.

Questions:

1.  Do you think I'm on the right track?

2.  Can anyone check if there is a Mary or Jane on the same marriage index as Thomas?  I can't find one but I'm not as knowledgeable about using the indexes as some of you are.  Maybe I'll just order the Certificate.  I think someone said the GRO people will check the spouses name before they send the Certificate.  Is this correct?

3.  Since the family stories indicate Walter Grantham was in the Royal Navy at age 12 as a galley boy, and that he lost an inheritance some time before 1903 because he was at sea and couldn't be found, is there any way to check people that were in the Royal Navy?

4.  Should I order the documents for Walker Grantham which may rule out this family?

Thanks.

Cathy

[GeoffE]

Acouple of things -
1) The mystery occupation looks to me like Police Matron

2) the 1863 Marriage
The FreeBMD image for Thomas Grantham is pretty ropey and the page number is far from clear.
The Ancestry image is better and the number appears to be 29 - this perhaps matches with Mary Jane WALKER.

In fact you can search Cheshire BMDs and that confirms the fact - they married at Heaton Norris

http://www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/cgi/marrind.cgi?county=cheshire

Lancashire here if you need it http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/

[GeoffE]

The 1851 census has two Mary J WALKERs from Brigg, one aged 6, one aged 4

This one could be tricky ...

Wootton
Ann DAVY (wid) 80 Lodging House keeper, Nettleton
Mary FARROW (unm) 40 Servant, Wootton
Mary J WALKER 6 Brigg
plus 3 male lodgers

or
Brigg
Jonathan EVERETT 49 AgLab, Waddingham
Ann 50 South Kelsey
Ann 14 Newstead
Mary J WALKER 4 Brigg Still living with Ann EVERETT in 1861, now aged 15
Mary A THOMPSON (vis) 7 Willerton

In both cases, no relationship is given!

[Ecneps]

Just posting the link to the other thread to avoid any duplication of research

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,280007.0.html

Cathy,  with reference to checking details before ordering certificates:
You can either ask the local register offices to check for parents' names before you buy, or do the same at the GRO

Here's the link to the online GRO site for certificate ordering:
 www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

That should tell you all you need to know.  There is a part of the form where you can ask them to check references including parent's names, spouse names etc.  They say that if you have done your own searching in the GRO indexes and have found more than one reference to the name you are researching, or are unsure which is the entry you require, they offer reference checking online. The charge is £7 for action on the first entry, which includes the cost of the certificate, and £3 for checking each subsequent reference against the information you have provided.  You must give one piece of information that you are sure will appear on the certificate, e.g. the exact date of the event.  A certificate will only be issued if the entry matches the checking point you give them.


Barbara

[cathyvall]

GeoffE and Barbara:

Thanks for taking the time to read all I wrote.  Very helpful comments.  And thanks for the research on the marriage and for the links.  I'll keep them handy for future use.

I think I'll order the birth certificate for Walter Grantham Oct-Nov-Dec 1875 to see if it lists Feb 27 as the birthdate and who his parents were.  This could rule him out or it could rule him in but rule out the family I found.  I will keep in mind your information, Barbara, about what services the GRO provides.  Will post the next installment of this saga when I get there.

Thanks!

Cathy