is this the end

[slothbear]

hello
 Ive followed my roberts family tree back from me in oswestry.to glyn geriog(david roberts born 1885),then llandderfell(john 1858)(david 1827)

then the problem started when i followed it then back to llandegla 1786,(david)
 i think i have done well so far,but want to go back futher.
in 1786 david roberts was born in llandegla,then in later years moved to llandderfel(bryn derw)he was a farmer.
i got a book of transcripts and found his father was robert and mother was mary.robert was a carpenter.
but i can not find any marriage or birth to do with robert
i recentently visited llandegla church in hope of finding roberts gravestone,but i had no luck.

i think robert lived in the llandegla area,as he had 5 or more children in the transcripts,but it doesnt give a abode,most of the other surnames in the book do.so perhaps it was somewhere in that area he lived? give or take 10 + miles perhaps.

so far i have just followed the direct line back,but i no from the census's of the 1800s that each line of roberts hand 8-10 children.so there are meny reletives.
i would like some help please in finding when and where robert was born,can any one tell me where i could start please i would be very greatfull.

[hiraeth]

Hi slothbear

Welcome to rootschat

I have many families from this area in my tree so checked to see if your David was in there but no luck.  However I have the PRs for Llanarmon yn Ial and found this marriage Nov 26, 1781

Robert ROBERTS (X) OTP, Banns
Mary TINSLEY(X) OTP
witnesses were Edwrd ROBERTS and Evan EDWARDS 

Evan Edwards witnessed a lot of marriages so perhaps he was the sexton or some other church official. 

No way of knowing whether this is your ancestor though.  What I have found with many of mine was that they seemed to switch between Llandegla and LLanarmon quite a bit.    Going back further than the mid 1700s is very difficult but it might be worth checking the National Library of Wales site as well as the Access to Archives for Robert Roberts carpenter.  Do you have the date of his burial??  I have PRs for many of the nearby parishes.  If I can help just shout.

Heather

[behindthefrogs]

Once you get back into the 18th century the parish registers even if you can find the entries contain very little information.  You need to start widening the sources that you use.  Wills, apprenticeship records, property leases, the other parish records etc. need to be used to establish relationships and give further background.

David

[slothbear]

thank you heather for making me feel welcome to roots chat.

i think i may need as much help as you can give me.
i havent got much to go on realy,only the transcript book for llandegla i have BMD from
1744-1812.
what i no from the booklet is-

robert roberts and mary roberts was the father of--
 david born 1787,who moved to llandderfel.
robert was a carpenter.
they also had jane 1776
                      godfrey 1778
                      robert 1780
                      thomas1782
                      jane1784   (another jane)??
                      david ( above 1787)
 also there is another robert and mary roberts,he was a wheelwright
they had a edward 1769
                  john 1771
                  robert 1773
could this be the same robert roberts the carpenter,as a few years earlyer he could of been a wheelwright?
there are 2 janes and 2 robert i think the first time they were named they may of died in childhood.?

for a burial record of the father robert,i have a few dates-
1788 ( it does say carpenter by the name) i think this could be the right date,so its oct 9th 1788
1795
1803
1810
1812
and mary his wife
1798 (it does say widow)
1804
1812
the marriage date u give me could be right,but it would of ment that they had 3 children before thay were marryed?
i think you are right looking in other villages so -
IF YOU COULD HELP ME ANY MORE,NOW THAT YOU HAVE MORE INFO ON ROBERT, I WOULD BE VERY HAPPY FOR YOU 2DO SO.
i think i just need a few dates,that are right and to do with robert and mary,then i can focus and get on my way again.
sorry for going on,i realy have enjoyed researching my tree,but i am struggling and not enjoying it as much.
thank you again
                                  ian
   

[hiraeth]

Hi Ian

I know it is frustrating and discouraging but don't lose heart yet    

You could well be right about the wheelwright evolving into a carpenter.  Don't think they would have married after having several children.  The early children would have been noted as being base born otherwise.  In which case what you have are the following:

1769 Edward
1771 John
1773 Robert
1776 Jane
1778 Godfrey
1780 Robert #2
1782 Thomas
1784 Jane #2
1787 David

There are two burials in the Llandegla registers which don't fit the above dates at all.  Both Janes appear to have been buried before they were baptised - perhaps the wrong registers were used to record the events  

Dec 19, 1774 Jane ROBERTS, d/o Robert (carpenter) & Mary
July 22, 1783 Jane ROBERTS, d/o Robert (carpenter)

There is also a Robard Robards s/o Robard & Mary baptized Oct 4, 1767.  Its possible that the baptism for the Robert in 1773 was actually a burial but that would disrupt the pattern which they seem to have established!

The deaths of 1788 and 1798 for Robert & Mary make sense.  Too bad there are no ages noted.  So where to find the marriage of Robert & Mary?   Have found one possible in Llanelidan Jan 21, 1766:

ROBERTS, Robert    otp,  Ba,  Licence
ROBERTS, Mary       otp,  Sp, 
witnesses Hugh Jones and Robt Goodman

I looked for the marriage bond/licence on NLW but it does not appear to be there.  You could email them to ask about it as they may have more that have not been listed yet.  If I were you I would also do a search on the North Wales Marriage Index - either through the Clwyd FHS or through Genfair(on line), asking for Robert ROBERTS and Mary marriages.   It might narrow the field down a bit - if there is only one nearby in the mid 1760s the Llanelidan couple are probably your best bet. 

Heather

[hiraeth]

I found a couple of items of interest on the CD of Denbighshire Quarter Session Rolls

QSD/SR/315/31 - Account of an inquest at Llandegla on a person supposed to have been killed 7 October 1788

QSD/SR/315/32 - Account of costs of Ambrose Lloyd, coroner for taking inquests on .......Robert Roberts at Llandegla  Michaelmas 1788.

Definitely worth checking out at the Ruthin Record Office    They may also have other records there as your Robert was a tradesman....

Keep us posted 
Heather

I forgot to add that Robert Roberts carpenter was buried October 9, 1788

[toni*]

I cannot offer any help but am reading this with interest!

[hiraeth]

LOL

Nothing like a good inquest to stir the blood of a family historian

[janan]

Hi
Welcome to Rootschat Ian

I have wheelwrights in my family who often appear on records as carpenters - I think they had to turn there hand to other things as a small village doesn't always provide enough pure wheelwright work.


Jan (eagerly awaiting inquest details  )