Author Topic: George Saunders the Whitesmith  (Read 1434 times)

Offline Tervid03

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George Saunders the Whitesmith
« on: Friday 22 February 08 06:53 GMT (UK) »
I am looking for information regarding George Saunders who married Harriet Goss; she was 28 in 1866, in Hythe in the Parish of Fawley Hampshire
He was 20 and a whitesmith as was his father George as named on marriage certificate.
Her Brother Henry Goss and a Charlotte Curtis were witnesses.


I have birth, marriage and death certificates for Harriet Goss also details of her parents and siblings. I have her on census in Exeter, Honiton, Southampton, then in Kersey Suffolk where she died in 1903. Unfortunately he was never with his wife and sons on the census of 1871 as Harriet is staying with Brother Henry and Emma his wife, the enumerator has also spelt Harriet’s name as Sanders but am positive this is my Harriet

They had two sons as far as I can check, Thomas George Saunders born on 1 Apr 1867 in Kingsfield Road, Southampton and it appears by checking census details was brought up by his Goss grandparents, I think he died in 1885 in Tonbridge when he was 18.

Frederick William Saunders was born in 17 June 1870 in Southampton, baptised in Aldershot September 1875, this is documented. He was my grandfather who married Pamela Kate Aggis in 1905; their children were Joseph, Sidney and Georgina, my mother.

Harriet Saunders nee Goss then at some point between 1870 and 1875 became a widow as she then married James Hazell on the Isle of Wight in March 1875. I have the wedding certificate which also indicates James Hazell address as Fort Victoria Yarmouth and that she was a widow.

I have the Census details for Harriet for 1841-51-61-81- 1901she died 1903
I have the Census details for James for 1851, 1881 and 1891 he died 1892 and is show as a Light Infantry soldier on his death cert.

Frederick must have been baptised after George Saunders death, there is no doubt on the certificates.

I am trying to find out when my Great Grandfather George Saunders died and any census information showing both Georges, I have trawled through the indices without success so far. The Census detail of 1861 in the Portsea area showing a George as 15 years old but cannot trace the family listed in the 1851 or 1861 census, I cannot find a conclusive birth or death certificate for him.
Any help and ideas in finding out about him would be appreciated.
Thanks
Terry

Lloyd
Kinsey
Aggis
Saunders or Sanders
Goss
Hazell

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Offline jorose

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Re: George Saunders the Whitesmith
« Reply #1 on: Friday 22 February 08 12:17 GMT (UK) »
On the birth certificate of his children, is he still listed as a whitesmith?

in 1861:
RG9/674 57/17
17 Winchester Road, St. Mary, Southampton
George Drake Saunders, 43, whitesmith,  b. Aylesbear, Devon
Sarah, wife, 56, b. Uffers?? Devon
Phebe, dau, 16, teacher of infants, b. Aylesbear, Devon
George, son, 14, whitesmith, b. Aylesbear, Devon.

This family, minus George, are still in Southampton in 1871.  In 1881, George D. Sanders, widowed, and daughter Phebe are in Kentisbeare.

freebmd shows him as George Drake Sanders - married in 1844 to Sarah Holland, died in 1900.
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Offline Tervid03

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Re: George Saunders the Whitesmith
« Reply #2 on: Friday 22 February 08 19:31 GMT (UK) »
hi Jorose,
               Very interesting, George's age would be about right given that he had 20 down as his age on the marriage certificate.

On Thomas George's birth cert., George's occupation is given as a Whitesmith Journeyman but no clear indication of occupation on Frederick William's Birth Certificate. I have asked for clarification on this birth/baptism certificate.

May I ask how you were able to find this detail and which search engines/programmes you are using.

I will look at the detail after I have eaten, thank you greatly for your assistance given so far, I would still like to find out when George died between 1870 and 1875. On the other hand perhaps he didn't die and Harriet's 2nd marriage was a bigamist one!
Regards
Terry
Lloyd
Kinsey
Aggis
Saunders or Sanders
Goss
Hazell

Offline AMK10

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Re: George Saunders the Whitesmith
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 08 November 18 14:06 GMT (UK) »
Hi
Pamela Kate Aggis(s) was my grandmothers sister. She married Frederick SAUNDERS (I think a Policeman). I have a lot of research done in the Aggiss family Kersey/Hadleigh. When she died she was living on Hadleigh Road Ipswich. If you’re still actively researching, please get in touch. Thx Anne
I am looking for information regarding George Saunders who married Harriet Goss; she was 28 in 1866, in Hythe in the Parish of Fawley Hampshire
He was 20 and a whitesmith as was his father George as named on marriage certificate.
Her Brother Henry Goss and a Charlotte Curtis were witnesses.


I have birth, marriage and death certificates for Harriet Goss also details of her parents and siblings. I have her on census in Exeter, Honiton, Southampton, then in Kersey Suffolk where she died in 1903. Unfortunately he was never with his wife and sons on the census of 1871 as Harriet is staying with Brother Henry and Emma his wife, the enumerator has also spelt Harriet’s name as Sanders but am positive this is my Harriet

They had two sons as far as I can check, Thomas George Saunders born on 1 Apr 1867 in Kingsfield Road, Southampton and it appears by checking census details was brought up by his Goss grandparents, I think he died in 1885 in Tonbridge when he was 18.

Frederick William Saunders was born in 17 June 1870 in Southampton, baptised in Aldershot September 1875, this is documented. He was my grandfather who married Pamela Kate Aggis in 1905; their children were Joseph, Sidney and Georgina, my mother.

Harriet Saunders nee Goss then at some point between 1870 and 1875 became a widow as she then married James Hazell on the Isle of Wight in March 1875. I have the wedding certificate which also indicates James Hazell address as Fort Victoria Yarmouth and that she was a widow.

I have the Census details for Harriet for 1841-51-61-81- 1901she died 1903
I have the Census details for James for 1851, 1881 and 1891 he died 1892 and is show as a Light Infantry soldier on his death cert.

Frederick must have been baptised after George Saunders death, there is no doubt on the certificates.

I am trying to find out when my Great Grandfather George Saunders died and any census information showing both Georges, I have trawled through the indices without success so far. The Census detail of 1861 in the Portsea area showing a George as 15 years old but cannot trace the family listed in the 1851 or 1861 census, I cannot find a conclusive birth or death certificate for him.
Any help and ideas in finding out about him would be appreciated.
Thanks
Terry

Offline Brentor boy

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Re: George Saunders the Whitesmith
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 08 November 18 14:40 GMT (UK) »
Error. Entry deleted.

Offline Brentor boy

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Re: George Saunders the Whitesmith
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 08 November 18 16:35 GMT (UK) »
From GRO Index. Birth of George Sanders registered Dec Q 1846. St Thomas. MMN Holland.

The death of a George Saunders, age 22, registered  June 1870, Isle of Wight. I accept age is out, but it is where Harriet eventually remarried. Might be worth a closer look.

However I think you have correctly identified Harriet in 1871. The child, Frederick W Sanders is almost certainly Frederick William Sanders, born June Q 1870, Southampton, mmn Goss. Harriet is recorded as "married" on the census return.

Offline Brentor boy

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Re: George Saunders the Whitesmith
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 08 November 18 17:44 GMT (UK) »
After thought.

The birth of George in 1846 was between October and December. The death of George in 1870 was between  April  and June, when the first George would have been 23. Such a small difference between the recorded and actual age at death is not uncommon. It all depends on the reliability of the information provided by the informant.


Offline Tervid03

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Re: George Saunders the Whitesmith
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 08 November 18 18:21 GMT (UK) »
Thank you, that makes sense, I had seen that info and dismissed it, for some reason I had miscalculated his age, Its such a long time ago when I was researching my family tree I have forgotten how to get the Certificates!
Lloyd
Kinsey
Aggis
Saunders or Sanders
Goss
Hazell

Offline Daisypetal

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Re: George Saunders the Whitesmith
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 08 November 18 19:38 GMT (UK) »

Hi,

I wouldn't be sure that the George SAUNDERS who died in 1870 is the right one. The IWFHS site  https://www.isle-of-wight-fhs.co.uk/index.php  shows that he died in the Ryde district,

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mzp/

In 1861 there is a George aged 13 born Ryde, living in Ryde with his parents William and Ann, and other family. I can't find him in 1871 so this could be the George that died in 1870.

As Harriet says she was married in I would look for another death. If Frederick was baptised in Aldershot I wonder if George had joined the Army?


Regards,
Daisy


All Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)