Author Topic: Are they gypsies?  (Read 74272 times)

Offline wood_gnome

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Are they gypsies?
« on: Monday 25 February 08 11:03 GMT (UK) »
Hi, I've traced my family tree on my mother's side back to 1777 and on all the census returns say they were either Cutlers, Tinplate workers, Tinners, Hawkers or Pedlars. On my grandfather and grandmother's death certificates it says they were licensed hawkers my grandfather was called Harry Hunter and my grandmother was called Esther Ann Banks. Does this mean they were gypsies?
Vickers, Hunter, Stewart, Allen,Taylor, Page, Galloway, Jowett, Croft, Stocks, Harrison, Furbank, Grey -
Yorkshire
Banks, Stewart, Allen, McHugh, Bluett, Casey - Lancashire                      
Hunter,Stewart, Armstrong - Cumbria

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Offline Pollynation

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Re: Are they gypsies?
« Reply #1 on: Friday 29 February 08 11:11 GMT (UK) »
Hi Wood_gnome

the answer is not neccasarily. A hawker was someone who went around, most likely with a cart, selling things. What we would call today a travelling salesman.

have a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peddler

for tinplaters see http://www.tinplateworkers.co.uk/history.html

A tinner is someone who makes or repairs tin ware. He also might have gone round knocking at doors to ask if anything needed mending.

A list of occupations can be found here http://www.genproxy.co.uk/old_trades_occupations.htm

Your ancestors probably didnt earn alot, so therefore couldn't afford to open a "proper" shop.

Best wishes
Pauline
Atkinson/Mountney/Gardner/Mellor/Finch/Higham-Lancashire
Cooper/Price-Shropshire
Lund/Foster/Wilkinson/Crawforth-Yorkshire
Calvert-Durham


Whoever said seek and ye shall find was NOT a genealogist.

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Offline wood_gnome

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Re: Are they gypsies?
« Reply #2 on: Friday 29 February 08 12:09 GMT (UK) »
Hi, Pollynation, My mother who is 80 said when she went to school everybody used to call them dirty gypos and spit on them. By that time they had stopped living in caravans and were living in a house she said her older brothers and sisters said they were gypsies and they used to travel around Yorkshire and Lancashire and Durham. I'm related to the Hull Cunninghams and the Leeds Crowther's. When my uncle Harry Hunter died in 1965 in Leeds loads of gypsies came to his funeral. So when my grandmother Esther Ann Hunter died in 1986 my aunty dare not put it in the Yorkshire Evening Post as she didn't want lots of gypsies turning up for her funeral as they did for my uncle Harry. She's a bit of a snob is my aunty.
Vickers, Hunter, Stewart, Allen,Taylor, Page, Galloway, Jowett, Croft, Stocks, Harrison, Furbank, Grey -
Yorkshire
Banks, Stewart, Allen, McHugh, Bluett, Casey - Lancashire                      
Hunter,Stewart, Armstrong - Cumbria

Offline Pollynation

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Re: Are they gypsies?
« Reply #3 on: Friday 29 February 08 12:30 GMT (UK) »
Unfortunately gypsies have a bad reputation and always have had. I can understand your Aunt, especially if no one in her area knew about her past. She might have lost some friends.

You have done well to trace your family if they were gypsies. Most avoid getting their names on any paperwork as much as possible.

Apart from your Aunt, is there anyone else in the family who you could talk to? She obviously doesn't like her families past. Also do you know if there was a list of peoples names who attended your Uncle Harry's funeral? Maybe you could contact someone that way?

Best wishes
Pauline
Atkinson/Mountney/Gardner/Mellor/Finch/Higham-Lancashire
Cooper/Price-Shropshire
Lund/Foster/Wilkinson/Crawforth-Yorkshire
Calvert-Durham


Whoever said seek and ye shall find was NOT a genealogist.

Offline wood_gnome

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Re: Are they gypsies?
« Reply #4 on: Friday 29 February 08 14:31 GMT (UK) »
Hi, Pollynation, Like you say they don't like paperwork, I found out they were gypsies when I was 15. I started talking to a old man where I was working in Leeds this was in 1962 and he said I didn't know you were Esther Ann's grandson he said I used to live opposite her in Manchester I said she was born in Yorkshire he said her name is Esther Ann Banks her mother was called Ellen (Minnie) Banks on account of her size and they were all gypsies said they aren't he said take it from me lad there all gypsies. So when I got home from work I went to my grandma's house and said this bloke at work said your a gypsy and you were born in Manchester she said whats his name I said Harold Taylor she said tell him he doesn't know what he's talking about silly old fool. So I did he said take it from me lad there all gypsies even your mother. So when I started searching a couple of years ago the first thing I did was look up Esther Ann Banks and found everything the old lad had told me was true so I got my grandma's birth, marriage and death certificate and her death certificate was signed by my aunty.
Vickers, Hunter, Stewart, Allen,Taylor, Page, Galloway, Jowett, Croft, Stocks, Harrison, Furbank, Grey -
Yorkshire
Banks, Stewart, Allen, McHugh, Bluett, Casey - Lancashire                      
Hunter,Stewart, Armstrong - Cumbria

Offline ankerdine

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Re: Are they gypsies?
« Reply #5 on: Friday 29 February 08 14:59 GMT (UK) »
Hello
The word gypsy stood out at me. Some of my ancestors were "tinsmiths" so I was interested and very amused by your stories.

You should read Jessie Smith's Trilogy of stories of the travelling people in Scotland. Even though they are set in the 1900s some of the stories are great fun and an insight into the world of itinerants.

My great-aunt was snubbed by some relatives in the 1960s when she started hawking flowers from her back garden. I think she had started with a bit of dementia and thought she was back as a child. It was very sad 'cause she was a sweet old lady.

I know a Crowther in Leeds. Well, just you wait till we meet up with him again!

Have fun on this site, it's really great and everyone tries to help as much as they can.

Bye for now,

Judy
Blair, Marshall, Williamson - Ayrshire, Wigtownshire
Saxton, Sketchley - Nottinghamshire, Leicestershire
Brown, Green - Rutland
Hawker, Malone, Bradbury, Arnott, Turner, Woodings, Blakemore, Upton, Merricks - Warwickshire, Staffordshire
Silvers, Dudley, Worcs
Deakin - Staffordshire

Offline behindthefrogs

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Re: Are they gypsies?
« Reply #6 on: Friday 29 February 08 15:09 GMT (UK) »
Hi Wood_gnome

the answer is not neccasarily. A hawker was someone who went around, most likely with a cart, selling things. What we would call today a travelling salesman.

Best wishes
Pauline

A travelling salesman is someone who represents a particular company and goes round shops and other companies taking bulk orders.  More usually called a representative in recent years.

A hawker is usually a door knocker selling individual items to householders.  Although in the past he would also have been allowed to sell in the streets possibly from a cart.

David
Living in Berkshire from Northampton & Milton Keynes
DETAILS OF MY NAMES ARE IN SURNAME INTERESTS, LINK AT FOOT OF PAGE
Wilson, Higgs, Buswell, PARCELL, Matthews, TAMKIN, Seckington, Pates, Coupland, Webb, Arthur, MAYNARD, Caves, Norman, Winch, Culverhouse, Drakeley.
Johnson, Routledge, SHIRT, SAICH, Mills, SAUNDERS, EDLIN, Perry, Vickers, Pakeman, Griffiths, Marston, Turner, Child, Sheen, Gray, Woolhouse, Stevens, Batchelor
Census Info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline wood_gnome

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Re: Are they gypsies?
« Reply #7 on: Friday 29 February 08 15:14 GMT (UK) »
Hi Judy, My Uncle Thomas Hunter married Ellen Crowther in Leeds in 1938 he died in 1955 but my cousin Tommy Hunter has a outside stall in Leeds market selling lino as far as i know it's still there according to one of my sister's. 
Vickers, Hunter, Stewart, Allen,Taylor, Page, Galloway, Jowett, Croft, Stocks, Harrison, Furbank, Grey -
Yorkshire
Banks, Stewart, Allen, McHugh, Bluett, Casey - Lancashire                      
Hunter,Stewart, Armstrong - Cumbria

Offline wood_gnome

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Re: Are they gypsies?
« Reply #8 on: Friday 29 February 08 15:34 GMT (UK) »
Hi, When I was 8 or 9 years old I was staying at my grandma's house in Leeds I lived in Gloucester then. I was sat in my grandma's my mother was there and my great aunty Bella and a truck pulling a caravan pulled up outside and this woman came into my grandma's she had had gold half sovereigns hanging from her ears hanging round her neck and wrist there was kisses and hugs alround and it turned out she was my grandad's sister she was my great aunt Sarah Ann Hunter and they were on their way to Doncaster. When she had gone I said to my mother is she a gypsy and she said don't be silly. A bit later on I was earwiging and they were saying "I thought they would have parked at the back of the house so people wouldn't notice.
Vickers, Hunter, Stewart, Allen,Taylor, Page, Galloway, Jowett, Croft, Stocks, Harrison, Furbank, Grey -
Yorkshire
Banks, Stewart, Allen, McHugh, Bluett, Casey - Lancashire                      
Hunter,Stewart, Armstrong - Cumbria