Author Topic: Are they gypsies?  (Read 74323 times)

Offline cathayb

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Re: Are they gypsies?
« Reply #27 on: Saturday 29 March 08 14:32 GMT (UK) »
p.s.i forgot to say there is a strong line of gypsy hunts/hunters around derby and yorks.let me know how you get on.what is your surname now?
birchs taylors penfold orchard hughes all romany gypsies in the west country

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Offline wood_gnome

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Re: Are they gypsies?
« Reply #28 on: Saturday 29 March 08 14:57 GMT (UK) »
Hi Cathayb, I was born in North Yorkshire but lived in Leeds for about 30 years. When I was working in Leeds about 1985 I got talking to a lad who used to do a bit totting around where I worked and he used call in once week to see if I had any scrap for him, any way we got talking and it turned out his father knew my Mother and all her family. The week after he came into the shop and he said he'd been talking to his Grandfather and he said he wanted to know if my Father was a gypsy as my Father was born in Holbeck in Leeds and his Grandfather lived in Holbeck he said when he was a lad there was a big family of gypsies in Holbeck with the same surname as mine. I said as far as I know he's not a gypsy, but said if you stood my Mother and Father side by side and said to the man in the street which ones a gypsy they'd pick my Father straight away.
Vickers, Hunter, Stewart, Allen,Taylor, Page, Galloway, Jowett, Croft, Stocks, Harrison, Furbank, Grey -
Yorkshire
Banks, Stewart, Allen, McHugh, Bluett, Casey - Lancashire                      
Hunter,Stewart, Armstrong - Cumbria

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Offline wood_gnome

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Re: Are they gypsies?
« Reply #29 on: Thursday 03 April 08 14:06 BST (UK) »
Hi, Update just found out my Father was a gypsy, emailed one of my sister's yesterday and she said that she'd told me 10 years ago that he was. She used to do child minding and thought she'd give fostering ago, so a social worker called round to see her. When she arrived she introduced herself as ***** Vickers and my sister said that's my maiden name so she said do they call your brothers and sisters and reeled off all our names and my Father's and Mother's and she said to my sister do you know your half gypsy, so my sister thought hey up she's going to have a dig at my Mother here, she then proceeds to tell my sister that my Father's family are all gypsies. My Father was the eldest of six and he was that ashamed of being a gypsy he joined the RAF soon as he was old enough. I remember when I was about 5 I asked him where his Mother and Father lived he said they were both dead and he didn't have any brothers or sisters we lived in Gloucester then on Innsworth RAF camp. The social worker turned out to be our cousin now we've got loads of Uncles, Aunts and cousins we never knew existed.
Vickers, Hunter, Stewart, Allen,Taylor, Page, Galloway, Jowett, Croft, Stocks, Harrison, Furbank, Grey -
Yorkshire
Banks, Stewart, Allen, McHugh, Bluett, Casey - Lancashire                      
Hunter,Stewart, Armstrong - Cumbria

Offline cathayb

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Re: Are they gypsies?
« Reply #30 on: Thursday 03 April 08 14:56 BST (UK) »
replying to you here here paul.yes i told you you sounded like gypsies.if your dad was a rom then we roms regard you as 100%gypsy and one of the family.glad you were in gloucester too.that will help me find a connection as our lot travelled around there alot.albeit now you live in a house we would call you a posh rat!!!but dont worry we love the posh rats the same as us van dwellers!!i hope you will be proud of your heritage.gypsies have had a very hard time of it for 100 hundred of years but they still survive and have fought in wars and held positions of authority.i think we can be proud of that!!may i suggest you look on romanygenes blank page?or have i already sais that?my and my husband have a few pages on there aswell.birch 1 and 2.and also joe and cathay romany exhibition is ours if you want to know what we and the older family look like.i will be in touch again soon by our own emails.love cathab
birchs taylors penfold orchard hughes all romany gypsies in the west country

Offline wood_gnome

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Re: Are they gypsies?
« Reply #31 on: Thursday 03 April 08 15:09 BST (UK) »
Hi Cathayb, I had message from someone today his GGGGrandfather was my GGGGrandfather's brother and he was called John Taylor Vickers and his Daughter was called Mary Ann Taylor Vickers, Her mother was called Matilda  Bilton she was born in York and John Taylor Vickers was born in Holbeck, Leeds. I said to my wife last night I'm gutted, I've just found out my Father's a gypsy, she said why you always knew you were half gypsy I said that it was because my Father who is dead now kept it hidden for all those years and I never new  a thing I said I'm 60 years old and I've just found out when my Mother whose 81 now knew all the time and never said a word. My Brothers and Sisters are all proud to be Gypsies my Mother said my Father's family were that poverty stricken she thinks that he thought if people didn't know he was a gypsy he'd be better off. Paul.
Vickers, Hunter, Stewart, Allen,Taylor, Page, Galloway, Jowett, Croft, Stocks, Harrison, Furbank, Grey -
Yorkshire
Banks, Stewart, Allen, McHugh, Bluett, Casey - Lancashire                      
Hunter,Stewart, Armstrong - Cumbria

Offline CatOne

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Re: Are they gypsies?
« Reply #32 on: Thursday 03 April 08 15:14 BST (UK) »
Hi,

You say you don't have anything on Constance Grey?

is this them in 1871? Enumerated as "Steward"  Not sure :-\ -

1871 RG10/4275 Folio 58 Page 25
Allhallowgate, Ripon, Yorks

George Steward 35 Broom Maker Cumberland Penrith
Constance 26 Cambridge NK
Emily 6 Scholar Lancs Colne
John 3 Scholar Lancs Clitheroe
Charles 2 Yorks Otley
Isabella 2 mo Ripon

Marriage -
George Stewart March 1864 Skipton Vol 9a Page 58
Brides - Constance Grey or Mary Ann Moorhouse

The marriage cert should hopefully give her fathers name and occupation?

Regards
Cat  :)
Dunning/Downing, Osborn/e, Astley -Cheshire/Birmingham/Middlesex
Fanthorpe/Hall/Driffill/Storm - Lincolnshire
Bower/Woodward/Bingham/Pettinger/Shaw - Nottinghamshire
Shaw, Marland - Lancashire
Broph(e)y - Queens County, Ireland
Richards - Neath Swansea
Hunt/Fox - Lincs, Waterfield/Middleton - Staffs
Hart/Harland/Askew/Scales - Yorkshire
Brereton/Vickers - Cheshire
Gleaves/Sandford/Hulse/Hulme - Wolstanton/Audley Staffs
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov

Offline wood_gnome

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Re: Are they gypsies?
« Reply #33 on: Thursday 03 April 08 15:28 BST (UK) »
Hi CatOne, yes I got the info off someone who contacted me on Genes Reunited she was looking for Albert George Vickers born the same year as my Grandad but my Grandad was called George Albert Vickers and mine was born in Holbeck, Leeds but on her family tree she had George Stewart's Brother and she gave me the info on the Marriage Certificate so I could get a copy. But thank you for your time. Paul.
Vickers, Hunter, Stewart, Allen,Taylor, Page, Galloway, Jowett, Croft, Stocks, Harrison, Furbank, Grey -
Yorkshire
Banks, Stewart, Allen, McHugh, Bluett, Casey - Lancashire                      
Hunter,Stewart, Armstrong - Cumbria

Offline tiggi

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Re: Are they gypsies?
« Reply #34 on: Friday 04 April 08 23:05 BST (UK) »
Can i just say a little about your topic
Romani or Gypsy who are we really ? There isn;t a country called Gypsyland or Romaniland ?
The name gypsy wasn;t our choosing but called to us by the gaji Why ? Because they didn;t know how else to describe the unusual sight of people so dark and mysterious and that lived originally in tents not caravans as most believe, that came much later, they wore bright vivid colors and spoke a strange tongue imagine how you would think if you saw them for the very first time how would you describe them ?
 The first were so dark almost black in color.
 People had never seen the like of before, as the centuries went by they married into many families and now we have blonde blue eyed etc but the true ones were dark and dark eyed exotic in looks.
 They were always thought to be un- christian having no belief in God Why ? again because if they didn;t comply with the people of the land they lived in that was seen as very wrong how could these people believe in any religion after the way they were treated  and what they saw done to people in the name of religion,that subject has caused more wars than anything else.

Way Way back before we can imagine there was in every country a tribe of people who chose to ROAM rather than be like everyone else and live in a house. this is where the word Romani derives .
From these tribes come all our families from across the world  they were unwelcomed where ever they went because they didn;t comply to the norm
Amazingly we will find more about them than your average person why because people were fascinated by them, they could live without all the comforts of a brick dwelling and survive so much is wrote of them more so than ordinary people it just means you have to look, not just census records try newspapers there is a huge amount written about gypises or romani through the years.
Unfortnately like any people there is good and bad amongst them and mostly you will only hear or be told the bad , but hey the gaji did far worst than the romani people ever did.

I will say this people even today consider us all the same but it is very annoying to be classed as one we are not , many have gone under the pretence of being a gypsy and they have no right to claim that, thats why lots of the old ones get annoyed or won;t speak about it.
In the old days the tribe was ruled by each family usually the elder member.
 Some families joined especially through marriage which again they believed strongly that they should keep the line true by only marrying into the families of the true blood.
They had their own rules and laws which they did use, as for Kings & Queens noo  that was done for the gaji benefit, it  helped to give them status not just among themselves as a sign of respect but the gaji liked the idea of royalty if it meant they could camp without being bothered great.
 They had a council of the higher ranking men etc and these ruled the tribes, but there was a leader who's word was always obeyed by all.
The women were the workers not the men although they did do work the woman did much more than just keep the family clean and fed,  it wasn;t for men to bring up children or do the chores never that wasn;t allowed.
 It was a great delight for a gypsy man to have a daughter it ment he would gain wealth when she married, a son would mean he had to pay not so good.
The one thing I admire about all the true Romani is the fact they could change their trade and make money where no other man could,  the sad part is that they lived by natures rules so much has been lost through the years about living off the land how many today would know if they walked along a real country lane what wood was good for things or which plants they could eat or use as medicines this is what we are losing as a hertiage.
I am very proud to admit my family were of these people and only wish I could have know them better sadly most have gone now like the true families it has all died.

Why did they move so much over the years  it wasn;t just they followed the seasons for work on the farms in the early days they were a cheap labour force with no outlay for living expenses and most families were welcomed by the farmers year a upon year, until machinery came, then it all changed they had to find other ways to make money which they did very well, but many caused trouble many were when brought to court called vagabonds and rogues this law goes back to before 1700s which gave the judge powers to imprison and even have them killed or transported, so what choice did they have but to move on quickly
Another thing I have found too I always thought they called children after their parents as a sign of respect , how wrong it was done for a much more crafty reason, many  had the same name so as to confuse the law if they were caught for what ever hard to prove if you have 6 called same name which one is guilty and as most gaji couldn;t tell them apart it made it even easier to decive
Anyway this is only my opinons hope it helps to clear up some things
 My favourite quote is from my own Great- Great Grandfather he said :
We are children of Nature it seems hard we cannot live on forever among the grasses and woods changing our tents from season to season to follow the summer sun.
.


TENETT BUCKLAND & PLATO BUCKLAND ( MY LINEAGE)
  Buckland Smith James Stanley Lovell Loveridge Lee Cooper Penfold/Pinfold Orchard Boswell Broadway Wells
 
AREAS OF INTEREST CORNWALL DEVON

USA   Worton Stanley Joles Cooper  Jeffrey Small
 all English lines of Roms who are found in America

UK Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline wood_gnome

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Re: Are they gypsies?
« Reply #35 on: Saturday 05 April 08 14:35 BST (UK) »
Hi tiggi, I agree wholeheartedly with everthing you have said. Paul.
Vickers, Hunter, Stewart, Allen,Taylor, Page, Galloway, Jowett, Croft, Stocks, Harrison, Furbank, Grey -
Yorkshire
Banks, Stewart, Allen, McHugh, Bluett, Casey - Lancashire                      
Hunter,Stewart, Armstrong - Cumbria