TREWARTHA Baptism Lookup please

[kilmartin]

Hi Kris,

What was the name of Jane Martyn's brother who married in Devon? 

Do you know if the Crantock Martyn family is documented elsewhere as they sound interesting?

There was another story about William being an officer in the army - I wonder whether this could have been likely - could Jane Martyn have married an army officer?

kilmartin

[krisesjoint]

Hi Kilmartin,

William b May 1767 Crantock (Date Unreadable) He married Mary HISCUTT 18 Apr 1793 Stoke Damerol. He can be found at Lagorra Cottage Crantock in 1841 and died in 1848. IGI has good coverage. His family are well known and I believe quite well researched. Williams son Silas Hiscutt Martyn farmed at Tregunnel. There is a tree on Ancestry World Trees and  probably others just beware when taking information from other peoples trees. I have the microfiche and have done a lot of work on the family so give me a hoy if you need anything verified as you progress and I will try to help.

Margaret 25 Jun 1769 and Jane 6 Oct 1770

I think if William Trewartha was in the army at the time of marriage the entry would probably indicate this. If there is any information as to a residence other than otp or occupation the index generally would indicate this. 

Kris 

[kilmartin]

Many Thanks again Kris for all your invaluable help - I have found a tree to look through so I shall delve further.

I will update when I have updates on William's profession.

Kilmartin

[laren]

Hi,

I hope people don't mind me jumping in on this discussion, and please let me know if I'm violating board process/etiquette but I've seen quite a few names that might tie in with a brickwall that I've hit in my research.

Person in question: Ellen BRAY b. 1829 in Cornwall, she emigrated to Australia 1847 on board the Cressy. Died 26 Sep 1888 Sandhurst, Vic, Australia.

The problem is her parents information. I currently have two different sets of information.

1. Family record, no idea where the info came from which has her as the daughter of James Trewartha Bray, born in Kea, Cornwall around 1796. Married to a Joanna. 

2. Information from a distant relative doing research, somewhat more reliable as their information is at least sourced. Gives her parents as William Bray, b. 17 Aug 1796 Helston, Cornwall, England d. 25 May 1868 married to Ann BARRET b. 1796 Gwennap, Cornwall, England.

Parents of Ellen Bray.- IGI Individual Record - Batch No M023563 1754-1875 Source Call No 0255477 Type Film

2nd source:- Cornwall County Council - Marriages in the Parish of Lanivet William Bray bachelor Ann Barrett spinster 23/05/1819 - Their marks - Witnesses Wm Barrett and John Mannell.

I've tried to verify the marriage and birth information via the Online COPC but I haven't been able to find the records.

Now the thing that is interesting is that the parents given to James Trewartha Bray in theory 1. are William Bray and Ann Trewartha, two people put together in one of the posts in this discussion. I am wondering if I have the right family but somewhere along the track, the individuals have gotten mixed up?

Unfortunately, her death certificate only lists her fathers surname of Bray, no information at all about her mother.

There was an Eliza BRAY on the Cressy with her, possibly a sister, as well as two William BRAYS, again, no positive idea of relationship.

An 1841 Census record has this:
Enumeration District 13  Civil Parish of Gwennap Book 11 Folio 13 Page 23

Tolcarne,1,Ann Bray,,55,Widow (Crossed Out),In county,
,,Josiah Bray,22,,Miner,In county,
,,William Bray,19,,,In county,
,,James Bray,12,,,In county,
,,Ellen Bray,10,,,In county,
,,Ambrose Bray,,7,,In county,

The issues are, how do I get a solid birth date for Ellen? How do I confirm her parents? Being on the other side of the world means I am limited in the leg work I can do myself. Is there anyway I can get this information online? My biggest problem is I am not really that familiar with how these various records were kept and what some of them mean.

Can anyone give me some ideas? Or should I be posting this as a separate request and not hi-jack this thread?

Cheers,
Michelle

[krisesjoint]

Hi Michelle,

A big Welcome to RootsChat and the thread. 

Starting to take a look about and I note:

James Trewartha Bray was baptised in Kea 7 Aug 1896 the Son of William.

Given the names Trewartha in the name it sounds like this is probably a son to the couple who had the one child baptised in Crantock, I provided earlier.

possibly a double Bray union, but Trewartha is not mentioned to be sure it is this man. Unfortunately there do not appear to be any baptisms for any of these children listed in 1841

James BRAY = Ann BRAY 11 Feb 1818 Gwennap

James BRAY was buried 16 Dec 1835 Gwennap aged 45 Years

If only the name Trewartha was mentioned it would provide a clue as to whether this was in fact James Trewartha Bray. 

Gwennap records have not made it to the OPC Database at this stage. It will take time to go through these. It appears there are some baptisms listed to James and Ann in Gwennap

http://gwennap-opc.com/

Pity the death certificate is not helpful, but unformation information provided for death certs was provided by other family members and was not verified - sadly a lot of times they just did not know. What about Ellen's Australian marriage cert for which she would have provided the information herself. What does she say about her father?

Update: I see the Cressy arrived in SA so am just checking my SA records 

I will leave this discussion here for the time being, to alert kilmartin to the fact that you may have a connection, but should we stray too much from his family I will later split it and make it a separate request 

Kris 

[krisesjoint]

Oh blast: Too early for a father to be recorded at marriage in SA 

Looks like Eliza no help either born 1834 and no Ellen and Eliza in same household in 1841 

If she is who the IGI says she is then the full baptism entry lists her father as a shoemaker from Falmouth. The only William and Mary in 1841 Falmouth with a daughter Eliza is a boatman......doesn't sound very likely 

As a South Ozzie myself I know just how frustrating it can be.........Kris 

[kilmartin]

Hi Michelle,

I wonder whether the name Trewartha was familiar to older members of your family - it was one name that has been passed down in our branch so maybe in your line the name Trewartha could jog an odd memory.

I had a quick look at the IGI and found a submitted record for Ellen Bray 1829 in Cornwall.  It lists her parents as James Trewartha Bray and Ann.  A date of death is given as 26 Sep 1888 Sandhurst, Victoria, Australia - fitting in with your Ellen Bray.  Unfortunately it is not obvious who submitted this information but it appears someone had reason to connect this Ellen with James Trewartha Bray and Ann.  Therefore, I think this line would well be worth checking out closely.  It would be nice if it connects.

I also found an extracted marriage record for James Bray and Ann Pengelly at St Martin on Looe Bay 4 May 1823 - which may fit this couple.

There is another James and Ann marriage but in Crowan 6 Dec 1834 between James Bray and Ann Waters - I wonder whether this was for the family you found in 1841.  It looks a little like my problem in that while Cornwall is very fortunate in having a good coverage of baptism records on-line there are still quite a few areas that are not covered which could well be where your Ellen Bray is to be found. Frustrating!

Kilmartin

[laren]

Dear Kilmartin,

Unfortunately, there isn't anyone left to ask. And as I don't know where the initial information came from, I wouldn't know where to start!

I suspect that the info I have (written in one of those generic "Family History" fill in the blanks books) may have come from the IGI. And while it is somewhere to get leads, unless I can back it up with some solid evidence, I don't want to include it.

Makes you wish for the odd Buffy or Tiffany rather than an endless supply of Williams, Georges, Jmaes, Thomas, Elizabeth, Marys and Anns'!!

I will keep plugging away, you never know when you are going to turn up that one crucial bit of info.

Cheers,
Michelle

[BONSAITRON]

Hi
Sorry to butt in but new to this forum.
found when i googled thomas martin trenerry  born 1801.
Thomas was a butcher,i was searching for his parents when i came across your reference to the marriage between thomas trenerry and margaret martyn 1793,in which u mentioned that the children from this marriage were butchers and wondered if this could be the couple i am looking for.
also another post mentions a captain joseph martyn ( some kind of relation) who was in the 7th hussars
iam in possession of a cup presented to a captain Joseph trenerry  7th hussars in 1856 after 32 years service and wondered if this could actually be the same man.
any help you could give would be greatly appreciated