TREWARTHA Baptism Lookup please

[deb usa]

Hi Kris 

can you see them anywhere on the 1841 ... i am thinking that it would give us an idea of what his occupation was upon leaving Cornwall. His youngest son , in 1851 was b c 1837 ... he must have moved his family just prior to that as the second to last child was born in Cornwall . Also , because of the family 'connections' it seems as though he did not have to move because of a mine closing and there being no work for him .

I cannot find them ...you would think that with a daughter named Lavinia, they would be easy to spot 

was something going on that he had to whisk his wife and kids off to Wales?!

deb

[krisesjoint]

Hi Deb,

As kilmartin mentioned he is a turnkey. (prison warder) 

Police Officer in 1851 and Post Master in 1861

HO107/1425/1 Folio 37 Page 23
Hill Terrace
St John and St Mary, Cardiff

Hopefully the 1831 baptism will tell us what he was doing in Cornwall. He doesn't really sound terribly upper class here. His daughter was a straw bonnet maker. I feel that the baptism I have must be him, but if I am right, there doesn't appear to be a lot of money about by this time. The one thing I feel looking at this is that a certain degree of literacy would have been required to be a police officer and post master. If he was from a poor mining or labouring family chances would be he wouldn't have been able to read and write.............Kris 

[kilmartin]

Thanks again Kris - the Martyn family do look interesting - the link is a real breakthrough - that side of the family have been quite challenging to trace with names such as Thomas and Lewis in Wales.  I really thought the Trewarthas would have been more straightforward - apparently not!

There was a story from Mary Trewartha's side of the family about the Trewartha's having come upon hard times - which I guess must hold true with the Straw Bonnet making and turnkey occupations.  Apparently William was listed as a Gaolor at the County Gaol on his Son William's birth certificate in 1839. It is intreaging what William did in Cornwall as he must have moved around a bit as his children were christened in different parishes.

Unfortunately I don't know much about the Hitchens side either - not a great help - sorry.

I will look at the other bits in the morning.

Kilmartin

[krisesjoint]

Kilmartin,

I see talk on IGI of births listing the Trewartha Christian name to William BRAY and Ann TREWARTHA in Kea. (mainly submitted but some extracted records)

I found that marriage

William BRAY = Ann TREWARTHA 27 Jan 1794 Kea

(No mention of either being from elsewhere at time of marriage)

Just wondering if she may be Williams sister?

Kris 

[krisesjoint]

Still looking and and the only thing I can turn up, where siblings may match is in Gwennap

William TREWARTHA 1 Sep 1771 Parents James and Mary

Ann TREWARTHA 31 Jul 1774 Parents James and Mary

Only likely marriage I can see

James TREWARTHA = Mary GOLDSWORTHY 27 Aug 1769 Feock

Kris 

[kilmartin]

I wonder if you could be right, Feock is not that far from St Gluvias, St Clement or Kea.  Most Trewarthas seem to connect back to the Gwennap area eventually from previous research into the name.  Naturally, there are a few Trewarthas which are not obvious where they connect - such as my William Trewartha and his descendents.

No one seems to have accounted for William (1771) son of William Trewartha and Mary Goldsworthy - so he possibly could have been the William to marry Jane Martyn.  William (1768) appears to have married a Sarah Oxford  and had a son William later than my William (1798) Crantock - this rules him out. 

James Trewartha and Mary Goldsworthy had 3 children christened in Gwennap - Mary (1770), William (1771) and Ann (1774) - I wonder whether they had more elsewhere.

I do not know about William Trewartha Bray but being in the same part of Cornwall (South of Truro), possibly his mother Ann Trewartha was William Trewartha's sister.  Again I can not spot her being linked into another family.

One thing that puzzles me is would a Martyn marry a miner?  Probably not. I don't know what James Trewartha did but his Grandfather, yet another William Trewartha, married at St. Gluvias in 1703 to Catherine King and was a Yeoman.  Maybe this branch of Trewarthas were still yeoman when William married Jane Martyn.  That would make more sense.

Incidentally the father of James Trewartha, yet another William Trewartha married Mary Bishop in 1729 in Gwennap - her father was the vicar there apparently.

It seems like we may have cracked this line. Any opinions?

Kilmartin

[krisesjoint]

Hi kilmartin,

I kept looking about for Trewartha's yesterday and noted the area we were talking about is around Gwennap where there appears to be a large gathering of Trewarthas in the area. Do you know for sure that this William of 1771 was a miner, because if he was I have serious doubts that Jane Martyn of Crantock would have married him. Mention Miner and Martyn in the same sentence and I will tune out. 

I saw the marriage earlier to the Vicar's daughter and quite liked that as I liked Yeoman (sounds rather more like it to me)

The marriage was by Licence, which to me is a sign that it may have been an upper class union. - a sign of their status and the fact that they could afford a licence (though of course there are others reason for a marriage to be by licence) We normally see gentry marrying their own kind and though I am sure that even then people were known to marry below there station, I guess I just find it impossible to see the Martyn Family giving Jane the price of a licence and telling her to go off and marry her miner. I am presuming the marriage was not some sort of family disgrace with Jane's Children being baptised in Crantock (unfortunately baptisms too early to tell us anything about William). We generally see a lot of cousin marriages etc within the gentry. These were desirable unions as it kept the property within the families hands. The upper class were fearful of losing their lands through poor unions. To my mind anybody marrying Jane would have held lands. I guess it is only supposition until you can get hold of these parish entries and we can see just what they say. Can't wait for an update there. 

I did find yesterday there is a William in Kenwyn in 1851 - guess you have seen him (Can't see him in 1841) He is a 78 year old ag lab so I tuned out a little there too. I didn't spot a baptism to give me a 78 year old. The nearest two showing are 1768 and 1771. I just have a gut  feeling that Jane Martyn of Crantock would not have been likely to have married a miner or an ag lab.

Kris 

[kilmartin]

Hi Kris,

I do not have any evidence that William Trewartha was a miner - I only mentioned it as there are a lot of copper miners around Gwennap.  It would seem highly improbable that he was a miner.  I looked at the Gwennap marriage transcriptions from the OPC and saw that the William Trewartha who married the vicars daughter, Mary Bishop, in 1729 was refered to as Mr - few others were - so I take that as an indication of his standing in the community. There is no obvious evidence to suggest his grandson who we presume married Jane Martyn had any less standing.

I don't see the William Trewartha in Kenwyn in 1851 as the one who married Jane Martyn unless he had come upon very hard times indeed!  The age is a bit out too especially if we think the Martyns would have been accurate about such matters.

I have not spotted a death for Jane Trewartha (Martyn) to see where she might have ended up. Her husband may well have been buried with her - would give a date.  They did not seem to have beeen particularly attached to one place.  I wonder if they had died before 1841, so there may have been little family to hold William and Elizabeth from moving away from Cornwall.

Kilmartin

[krisesjoint]

Hi kilmartin,

I don't have the full ref for Jane's Brothers marriage (It was in Devon) but he was certainly a land holder. His sons and grandsons were very substantial land holders, his daughter married a substantial land holder. I did notice something with Jane's sisters marriage, who did marry in the parish. Her husband could not sign his name. Perhaps the girls marriages were not quite so good as their brother.

Thomas Trenerry of St Clements Bachelor = Margaret Martyn OTP spinster by Licence 6 Jan 1793 Crantock Thomas signed with his mark, Margaret signed witnesses Mary Martyn and Margaret Martyn (Both Signed)

The witnesses were cousins. To my knowledge there were only the three Children and parents died when Jane would have been barely 10 so guess they were brought up by other family members.

I don't see Thomas and Margaret Trennery  in 1841 (Thomas was buried St Clement 28 Oct 1834 aged 69, unfortunately no sign of Margaret 1813-1837 to just see how accurate her age was) Thomas was possibly a Butcher - Sons appear to be butchers. (Of course nothing to say a Butcher would not have owned some land) I also note some of the children have the middle name Martin - Spelled wrong. Interesting, I would never expect to see it spelled with an i around St Columb Minor, Crantock but this family were in St Clement.   

Guess we just hope your records will tell us a little more about the Trewarthas. As you say re those earlier marriages these men certainly appear to have some standing in the community. They left wills too which is a good sign...........Kris