Golden Square church

[laineychr]

Hi All,
I have just got hold of copies of the parish registers for my ggggrand parents.
marriage & children's Baptism..
On the IGI it gives the date and that they were married or these Baptisms were at the Presbyterian or scotch church Golden Square Berwick upon Tweed, but on the registers it says they were married at Lamerton=Toll=house parish of Mordington, Berwickshire Scotland.
Were these 2 places the same. & me not being very good at the geography being from London & never visiting up there. My Joseph Bartram & Barbara Firguison/Ferguison were both from the Town of Berwick, is the town on the Northumberland side or Scottish side. they must have lived  close to lamerton Toll as all the children were also christened there.
I'm now a little stuck with them. don't know where to look next
regards Elaine

[stanmapstone]

It is  Lamberton Toll House, Berwickshire and it could be an Irregular Border Marriage - the records of marriages at Lamberton Toll are held at the Scottish Record Office, and have been published. It was similar place to Gretna Green
See http://www.ancestral-indexes.co.uk/intros/SCT-002.html
Stan

[stanmapstone]

Berwick-upon-Tweed is the most northerly town in England, and the only English town north of the Tweed. It changed hands between the Scots and the English thirteen times, and finally ended up in the possession of the English in 1482.
Lamberton is just over the Scottish border, north of Berwick on the A1.
Stan

[laineychr]

Hi Stan,
on the copy of the parish records in the ministers handwritting it is defiantly written as Lamerton, I don't think it's a spelling mistake as there are 6 other peoples entries on the page as well all with the spelling Lamerton, it's probably the same as Lamberton, the minister probably couldn't spell!! or maybe it was just written like that 1802.
having another look at the baptism copies it all the children were born in Berwick and Baptized by him but he doesn't actually say where. maybe he was a travelling minister!
One thing that confuses me is that on the IGI there marriage is down as at Golden sq and the records for this are at Berwick upon Tweed.. I am awaiting copies..but in the mean time found them on bmd registers & couldn't wait
Elaine

[stanmapstone]

Lamerton and Lamberton are aparently the same place

Poems, Chiefly in the Scottish Dialect: by Robert Burns - 1869
Page 269
... Of Lamerton, near Berwick


Stan

[JenB]

Elaine,

Here is a link to an old guide to the Great Northern Railway, in which Lamberton Toll is also called Lamerton Toll  http://www.rootschat.com/links/02vk/

You are definitely talking about two different places here - as Stan says, Lamerton/Lamberton Toll  (frequently used in the past for what are known as Irregular or Border Marriages) is in Scotland, and Berwick on Tweed is in England

It is difficult to help any further without knowing exactly what information you have got relating to each place.

Jennifer

[2zpool]

Do remember that marriages in England were only allowed in C of E churches in 1802*.  Thus if you didn't want to marry in a C of E church you went somewhere else to get married--thus Lamberton Toll in Scotland.  John Blackhall, Presbyterian minister, of Berwick Golden Square Chapel entered into their church's records marriages that were performed at Lamberton Toll and may have been performed by himself. 

I don't know if he entered only marriages he performed, or if those couples were members of his church, but not all Lamberton toll marriages were entered into that particular church's records.

*Except for Jews and Quakers

Janis

[laineychr]

Thankyou Stan, Jennifer & Janis,

Well that answers a lot Joseph & Barbara's marriage was performed by John Blackhall as all the others on the page that I have, also all of the christenings were performed by him. They probably were his parishioners
I am going to seem a bit daft here so I apologies, if he entered the marriages into the golden sq records (very kind of him for my sake) wouldn't it be the same as them getting married there..... sorry duhh! I know it sounds daft but I'm having a blond moment.
Elaine

[JenB]

I am going to seem a bit daft here so I apologies, if he entered the marriages into the golden sq records (very kind of him for my sake) wouldn't it be the same as them getting married there..... sorry duhh!

It wouldn't be the same as being married there, because the ceremony didn't take place there -  he was simply keeping a record of it happening elsewhere.

Jennifer