William Costello

[Dermot Nolan]

thank you for your reply - very nice to meet you and to know that you have had the same wonderings as I. I think the landlord for the area was named Crosby - I seem to recall that the Crosby estate still has some remnants in Ardfert. I am encouraged, not discouraged, by your message - it confirms to me that I am not alone in my frustration in finding answers. Let's keep digging and sharing

[John-NZ]

Dermot, yes I think that the Crosbie dynasty are the most likely culprits to be landlords for most of the O'Dorny area.
O'DORNEY, otherwise called Kyrie Eleison, an abbey under the invocation of the Virgin Mary was founded in 1154, for Cistertian monks. Its possessions, formerly very extensive, were at the dissolution granted by Hen. VIII. to Edmond, Lord of Kerry, created Baron O'Dorney in 1537. In 1596, the abbey was granted by Queen Elizabeth to the Provost and Fellows of Trinity College, Dublin; and in 1603 the rectory of O'Dorney was granted by the Queen to Wm. Taaffe, Esq.: it is now the property of W. Talbot Crosbie, Esq., of Ardfert Abbey. The parish comprises 10,140 statute acres, as applotted under the tithe act, and valued at £5236 per annum. The living is an impropriate cure, in the diocese of Ardfert and Aghadoe, and in the patronage of Mr. Crosbie, who receives the tithes, amounting to £184; he has appointed a curate, and a church and school-house are about to be built.
From Thom's Almanac and Official Directory for the Year 1862.
Deputy Lieutenants.  Crosbie, Major James, Ballyheigue Castle, Ballyheigue; Kildare st Club, Dublin; Union Club, London, S. W.
Crosbie, William Talbot, Ardfert Abbey, Ardfert.
Magistrates.   Crosbie, Major James, D. L., Ballyheigue Castle, Ballyheigue; Kildare street Club, Dublin; Union Club, London, S. W.
Crosbie, Wm, Talbot, D. L., Ardfert Abbey, Ardfert.
County Officers.  Clerk of the Peace, F. Crosbie,esq. (1819), Ballyard, Tralee..
Maurice Crosbie, 1st Baron Branden was born circa 1689. He was the son of David Crosbie and Jane Hamilton.1 He married Lady Elizabeth Anne FitzMaurice, daughter of Thomas FitzMaurice, 1st Earl of Kerry and Anne Petty, in December 1712 . He died on 13 January 1762  He was buried at Ardfert, County Kerry, Ireland.    He held the office of Member of Parliament (M.P.) for County Kerry between 1713 and 1758.
You can see that the Crosbie landed gentry enjoyed the income from their 10,000 acres for several centuries, and it is probable that some of their tenants held "lifetime leases" for 60 years, that were transferable to the tenant farmer's heirs, so land occupation of 300 years is quite possible.
See my personal message to you (we can discuss this by email).

[Dermot Nolan]

wow! I'll try to connect

[FMN17]

Dermot,
Good to hear from you and I am pleased that you have some of the history that I have been compiling. I sent some to your sister Mary a couple of months ago. Yes I was fortunate enough to visit the farm in 2008 and saw Norah, Pardraig and Ellen. I have not yet met Father Charles, but have written to him a couple of times.

As to the ownership of the land, I had presumed that the family would only have taken ownership in the 1920s, but that is just my guess. It seems clear from the Griffith Valuation rolls of 1851 - see askaboutireland.ie - that the Kilgulbin land was primarily owned by the Earl of Listowel. You can see from here that for Kilgulbin West all the land is leased from Nicholas Scollard. It is the same in Kilgulbin East, but you can see the Nicholas Scollard at section 12 leases from the Earl of Listowel. Several of the other townlands of ODorney have main leasee as Wm T Crosbie Esq. Also the townland to the west of Kilgulbin - where there is another family of Nolans (the Maurice Nolan's?) is also all leased from the Earl of Listowel.

You might also see here that what i think were several brothers? may have had land in Kilgulbin, both on the land that is now in the family and more. So in Kilgulbin West we have our great great grandfather Edmond with 52 acres at section 3. This is where the current farm is. On section 4 with 34 acres is Mary Nolan. I am guessing that this is Eddmond's mother, who was married to Charles Nolan (dead by 1851) and who I guess was Mary Griffen. This is also part of the current family farm. There is then the Ryall farm, and then next to that is another brother of Edmonds James (Charles) - the bracketed Charles note that there is more than on James, but this one has the father called Charles. He has 20 acres. Note that Edmond and James along with others, including Costellos, lease the bog at the north of Kilgulbin. On the other side of the road - in Kilgulbin East - James, Patrick and Edmond also have land - this is down the bottom of the road - south . When I talked to Norah I think she knew that the family had land there - she said that there was a cemetery there!
[I have some of the old maps of the boundaries for these sections - different from the aboutireland maps]

As to when Nolan's arrived, I have a book O'Nolan The History of a People by Rev John Nolan and Art Kavanagh. He notes at p 224 that o'Nolan's were moved from Leix to Kerry at the behest of Patrick Crosby in 1613. The O'Nolans in question were the descendants of Lucius O'Nolan who had been dispossessed of his lands in Forth O'Nolan in 1550 and had moved to Stradbally where he married the daughter of the local chieftain there - O'Lalor. All the Nolans from Kerry and Limmerick are descended from Lucius. There is a little more about Patrick Crosby and the move.

So it looks like Crobies were the original landlords, but at some stage the Earls of Listowel took over.

Hope that is fills in a little?

Frank Nolan

[John-NZ]

Although Irish history always comes in several versions, James Garvey (in "the Mahonys of Ballylahive" in 2002, see also "A Farewell to Kerry" 2002) says "By the 18th Century, however, most of O'Dorney had passed into the control of the Hare family and their kinsmen the Crosbies. The future Earls of Listowel would retain title to these properties until the 1870's when they would relinquish the leaseholds to their Talbot-Crosbie cousins." 
There could be much relevant information in the estate rent ledgers about tenants on the Crosbie and Hare estates at Ardfert, but possibly not about sub-tenants farming land that had originally been let to major farmers such as Nicholas Scollard.
The surviving rent books of William Talbot Crosbie are held in the manuscript room of the National Library of Ireland in Dublin along with the Earl of Glandore's (Crosbie of Ardfert's) rent books for 1805-1813.  The Earl of Listowel's (Hare's) rent ledgers for the years 1875, 1879, 1882, 1883, 1884, 1886, and 1891 - have survived intact and are held in the Kerry County Library in Tralee.
The Valuation Land Office in Dublin at 6, Ely Street has records of land transactions from the time of the original Griffiths Valuation to the present in their "Cancelled Land Books" and "Current Land Books."  I understand that the Mormons have copies of these available on microfilm.
In 1903, under a government sponsored scheme, tenants of Irish farms were given the means to buy their farms from the landlords. In 1909, tenants were given the right to compel landlords to sell under the scheme. In essence, the money to buy the farms was advanced by the government and the tenants (now owners) repaid the loan over 68.5 years. In many cases, the loan repayments were less than the previous rent. In time, inflation meant that the loan repayments were negligible.
This Irish Land Act came into force in November 1903, and Father Fitzgerald, parish priest at Ardfert, reported in the "Kerry People" that the first land sale was negotiated in December 1903 with Mrs Mary J Quill, for her property adjoining the Talbot-Crosbie estate, priced at 15 years rent.
Hansard reported a question in the House of Commons in November 1906 about delays over completing purchase agreements lodged with the Estates Commissioners in June 1904 for the Crosbie Estate at Ballyheigal (Ballyheigue).
Hansard reported a question in the House of Commons in December 1908 about tenants claims for the division of untenanted lands bought by the Estates Commissioners from the Lindsay Talbot-Crosbie Estate around Ardfert, and a reply that the owner was selling the lands himself.
This information gives some clues of when Kilgolbin farms may have been purchased, and where information may be found.

[jack Irish]

   I was scanning through for the very first tame and came across Jane Day. She, and aMicheal Sheehy were sponosors at the Baptiem of my Great Grandmother Honora Costello, born June 12, 1836. She is the daighter of Edmund Costello and Mary Devine.
    Honora would later marry Cornelius Carmody and emigrate to America around 1860. I would love to hear from any member of this family to help me fill in the blanks.


      Thanks you

[FMN17]

Irish Jack

Thanks for the connect, indeed this looks to be a link. I think that there are two Costello brothers in Kilgulbin in the early 1800s - Maurice (married Jane Day) and Edmund (married Mary Devine) - I guess there is a third brother Denis in nearby Rathkenny (who married Margaret Callahan in Tralee in 1822). By the naming conventions I might also guess that there father could have been an Andrew Costello?

The 1820 Tithe Applotment Books have: in Knocknamallough (now called Kilgulbin)  Townland were listed Maurice and Edmond Costello with 81 acres 2r 24p. And in Rathkenny townland there is Denis Costello with 43 acres and 13 perches.

In the 1851 Griffith Valuation Maurice has 42 acres of land plus a section of an acre of house and offices, while Edward has land and house and offices of 38 acres, plus a section of 1 Rod leased to Michael Ryle. Both also lease bog (46 acres), along with Nolan’s, Kenny and Duggin in section 1 in Kilgulbin West.
There is also a Maurice Costello with 50 acres of land in Fort William townland – section13. And there is a John Costello at Milltown (nearby).

Looking through the baptisms in Knocknamallough Edmond Costello and Mary Devine have four? children - Honora b 1836, Mary b 1838 (perhaps died ), Bridget b 1841 and Mary b 1843 (on the Church records site this is recorded as Edmund Devine and Mary Costello but I think it might be the other way around).

I think Maurice Costello and Jane Day may have at least 11 children, of which only 5 are recorded as baptised in the records (some before the records began and some when the records were missing in the 1840s). I have names of has Ann, Andrew, Elizabeth (married Gerald Stack), Denis (married Catherine Carroll - took over Kilgulbin farm), Mary (baptised 1836), Thomas (b 1838) Maurice (b 1839), Catherine (b 1842 - married John Nolan in New Zealand), Jane (married Hubert Ferguson in New Zealand), William (married Bridget Flynn in New Zealand), Edmond (married Kate Fahey in New Zealand). So the younger four of this family all emigrated to New Zealand in the 1860s, with Catherine marrying John Nolan who was also from Kilgulbin. Also Elizabeth's daughter emigrated to NZ too.

I think Denis Costello and Margaret Callihan of Rathkenny may have had at least nine children - Margaret, Andrew, Eugene, Ellen, Elizabeth, Thomas, Maurice, Denis, Edmond. The Rathkenny farm is taken over by the son Andrew who married Ellen Scollard.

The Costello Fort William farm is taken over by Andrew Costello - who I think is the son of Maurice and Jane Day. And his son Denis is there in the 1901 and 1911 Census.

Note here two Andrew Costellos - one in Rathkenny and one in Fort William!

The Costello Kilgulbin farm is taken over by Denis Costello - who is a son of Maurice and Jane Day - and Denis is still living on the farm in 1901 and 1911 censuses. Denis married Catherine Carroll (from Fort William) in 1864 and had a family of seven. The farm then passed to one of the sons Daniel b 1877 and married Kate McCarthy, then to Daniel's son Eugene b 1910 married Mary Walsh. Eugene and Mary had a family of 19, with Eugene dying in 2002 the farm is now farmed by one of his sons Maurice.  [There is a Costello family plot at the new Ardfert Catholic Church ].

So I am thinking that because the children of Maurice Costello took over the local farms, did your Edmond Costello family perhaps only have girls, or perhaps they may have all migrated to America?

Do you know anything of the others in your ggmather's family? Also interested to know if any of the local names such as Nolan or Ryall ended up in the same location in America? often locals travelled to the same area- so in NZ we had Nolan, Costello, Ryall, .. all ending up in the Otago goldfields in the early 1860s.

I looked to see if there was a Carmody / Costello marriage on the Churchrecords web site - one between a Michael Carmody and Ann Costello, but this is in 1848 (Ann may be a daughter of Maurice Costello and Jane Day?)

Frank Nolan

[jack Irish]

Hello Frank

     Well, here is what I know. Honora Costello married Cornelius Carmody and they had one child born in 1860 in Ireland. His name was James Carmody. Soon after, they emigrated to America. Here, Cornelius joined the Union Army and served until wounded in a scirmish at Gainesville Turnpike in Pennsylvania. He would be discharged and returned home to raise his family. They had four more children. Margaret(my grandmother) in 1868, Annie in 1871, Lizzie in 1873 and Nellie in 1876. Cornelius would later be killed in an explosion while working with munitions in 1877.
       James would marry a woman named Maria Evans and later moved to Chicago, Illinois. They had only one child, Frances, who would become a school teacher and never married. I did meet her once, but I was a very young lad at the time. I do have a picture of her.
       The other three girls, as far as I can tell, never married. After Honora died in 1882, the girls went to live with an aunt in Troy, New York. Now, here is an interesting part. The aunt was Margaret Costello and this shows the tie between the Costellos and the Carmodys.
       Margaret Costello was born in 1841 and arrived here in 1862. I have been unable to determine who her parents were.
       Is this information of help to you? I know that yours gave me some insight. If there is any other items you may know I would love to hear from you again.
       Hopefully when I return again to Ireland I can arrange a trip to the Costell farm just to introduce my self and say hello.

       Thanks

         Jack





       

[John-NZ]

Hello, Jack and Frank.
There are two or maybe three posts made on the genforum.genealogy.com site back in December 2001 that appear to refer to your Cornelius Carmody and Nora (Honora) Costello.
See http://genforum.genealogy.com/carmody/messages/271.html
Posted by: J. Burns    Date: December 26, 2001 at 16:39:43 
Looking for links to Cornelius Carmody born In Ireland in 1835. Married Nora Costello. Came to America prior to the Civil War and then served in the Union Army. Died in upstate New York in 1877. Nora died in 1882. Had Margaret, Annie, James(lived in NYC married Maris Evans)
Posted by: Dan Carmody    Date: December 29, 2001 at 13:20:28
cornelius was a shoe/bootmaker living in ilaverhill MA he was a private in the 9th regiment mass Volunteer infantry He joined on June 1 1862. He was wounded in the battle of fredricksburg on dec 13 1862. He was dicharged in June 21 1864 but rejoined the veterans reserve group in july 2 1864. He was formally discharged nov 15 1865.
Posted by: Robert Lennox Frings    Date: January 12, 2002 at 20:33:41
Dan, I am responding to your post about Cornelius Carmody. I'm assuming that you meant Haverhill, MA in your message.
My great grandmother was Mary Carmody from Oswego, NY. She married John Lennox, also of Oswego, NY. John's brother, George W. Lennox married mary's sister Margaret Carmody. George and Margaret left Oswego and moved to Haverhill, MA. George started a Morocco Leather business named Lennox and Briggs. I don't know if any other Carmody's that I've come across followed them there but the fact that Cornelius was a shoe maker seemed like it may be a similar industry. The time frame that I am talking about is between 1875 and 1920. Have you come across anyone in your research with the last name of Lennox? How about Mary or Margaret or even Oswego, NY? Thought I'd take a chance.
Looks as though you have some more cousins out there, Jack.  Regards, John.