Author Topic: One for Liverpool Annie Part 2  (Read 88086 times)

Offline fillupe

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Re: One for Liverpool Annie Part 2
« Reply #225 on: Friday 04 July 08 04:21 BST (UK) »
Hi Annie - Thanks for your correction, I should have stated that! I was actually originally sent that photo by Tom Cunningham from Glasgow, Scotland and I apparently did a mind-meld with the facts. So then, it really did come from Scotland but 118 years and the "click", not a save!

Thanks
Philip

Offline Marscourt

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Re: One for Liverpool Annie Part 2
« Reply #226 on: Sunday 06 July 08 20:00 BST (UK) »
Hi Annie,

My Great Grandfather was Charles DALTON.

Please see: www.ozbadge.com for some other details.

Cheers,
MN


Charles DALTON - Possibly rode in the Charge

Charles Dalton was born in the parish of St. Luke's, Chelsea. He enlisted at Westminster in March 1850 at the age of 18 years into the 8th Hussars and was discharged from Calcutta, India, in September 1863 after 12 years service. The records give no indication of when, or how, he returned to England.

He was entitled (according to the medal rolls) to the Crimean medal with clasps `Alma', `Inkerman' and `Sebastopol', and the Mutiny medal with clasp `Central India'. Although he was not shown as being entitled to the Balaclava clasp, he was allowed to become a member of the Balaclava Commemoration Society in 1879, and this would imply that he did indeed ride in the Charge.

He is said to have emigrated to Australia aboard the Northern (sic) circa 1863-64 (no ship of this name can be found listed, but there was a ship called the Northam which made four voyages to Sydney in 1863 and the same number in 1864, but a Charles Dalton is not listed among the passengers). He is said to have married an Irish girl (Jessie FitzSimmons), born in Armagh, County Armagh, at Christ Church, St. Lawrence, Sidney, on 6 June 1865. Nine children were born into the family, the last seven being at Government House, where Charles Dalton was in charge of the Governor's escort. On his death he was buried in the Church of England Cemetery at Balgowlah, Manley. His wife died in 1919. A family tombstone exists in Manley Cemetery and has the following inscriptions on it -

`Charles Dalton, late of the 8th King's Royal Irish Hussars and for 25 years in charge of the Governor's Escort, N S Wales. Born London 24th Nov 1832 -Died Balgowlah, 5th February 1891. Served in the Crimea and Turkey at Alma, Balaclava, Inkerman and Sebastopol, and in India at the Siege of  Kotah, Recapture of Chundaree, Kotah Ki Seria, Capture of Gwalior, Powrie, Sindwah and Koonory. Also Jessie, beloved wife of the above - Died 17th December 1919, aged 81 years. Also Emily Emma Sarah Jordan, who passed away 31st Aug. 1965, aged 84.'

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/The+Australian+graves+of+Crimean+War+Light+Brigade+veterans-a083477092


Offline liverpool annie

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Re: One for Liverpool Annie Part 2
« Reply #227 on: Sunday 06 July 08 22:50 BST (UK) »


Hi MN and welcome to RootsChat !!  :) :) :)

How wonderful for you to have your GreatGrandfather in the Charge !!

I had him in two places ... ( I really need to edit this thread !!  ::) ) did you see this one ?.. I had your site included !!  :)

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,286323.165.html

I'd love to hear whatever else you could tell us ....

Thank you for dropping by !!

Annie  :)
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http://web.archive.org/web/20130407030702/http://www.freewebs.com/liverpoolannie

http://web.archive.org/web/20130407191115/http://manchestersoldiers.webs.com

http://web.archive.org/web/20130807102055/http://www.powv.webs.com/
Be who you are and say what you feel -  because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind ! Dr. Seuss

Erect no gravestone .... let the Rose every year bloom for his sake ! Rilke Sonnets to Orpheus, I

Offline Marscourt

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Re: One for Liverpool Annie Part 2
« Reply #228 on: Monday 07 July 08 00:14 BST (UK) »
Hi Annie,

Thank you, nice to be involved.

Well, for starters the uniform he is wearing in both photos is not 8th Hussars, but NSW POLICE, as we can tell from the badge/helmet plate. I have the original helmet plate (one of two known to exist) and the State Library of NSW has an original wet plate copy of one the early "Carte de Viste's" of him. The University of Sydney I believe has the original "Freeman" plate.

I believe he may have based his uniform on the 8th Hussars and I think he was originally sent to Australia by HMG on board the P&O Mail steamer "Northam" as a type of "bodyguard" to Lord and Lady Young (soon to be Governor of NSW) in 1861 where he wore his 8H style uniform. We think he may be discreetly shown on the ships manifest as "manservant"; along with his future spouse, "Jessie" (my beautiful Great, Grandmother), which is where they met.

I believe he could have officially left the 8H "payroll" or HMG employ in 1862/1863 when the NSW Police took over the "Governor's Escort/Guard" and he joined the NSW Police "payroll". Hence, the reason it looks like he was dismissed in Calcutta (but with no sign of where or how he went). 8H were never officially in Australia anyway...could have been early Secret Service type stuff I guess (pure speculation), and they eventually just sent an "email" to Calcutta to say he'd resigned with "Time Served with Good Conduct" ;-)

That Hussar style of uniform was used by Commissioned Police Officers right up until the 1940's.

Guess they liked the Hussar "look"... with a touch of the old Calcutta "Pugaree", in the undress form.

Cheers,
Mike.

Hi MN and welcome to RootsChat !!  :) :) :)

How wonderful for you to have your GreatGrandfather in the Charge !!

I had him in two places ... ( I really need to edit this thread !!  ::) ) did you see this one ?.. I had your site included !!  :)

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,286323.165.html

I'd love to hear whatever else you could tell us ....

Thank you for dropping by !!

Annie  :)



Offline liverpool annie

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Re: One for Liverpool Annie Part 2
« Reply #229 on: Monday 07 July 08 00:36 BST (UK) »


Hi Mike !

Seems like you know a tremendous amount already ! ... all the stuff I posted was yours I think !!  :)

Some of these soldiers seemed to have such adventures  :D ... some of the guys who went to America went and fought again .... makes for very fascinating reading !! and a little envy on my part !!  :) :)

Tell us if there is anything we could try and help you with .... we're always happy to give things "a go "!!  :)

Annie  :)
Cooper : Muels : Howarth : Every : Price : King

http://web.archive.org/web/20130407030702/http://www.freewebs.com/liverpoolannie

http://web.archive.org/web/20130407191115/http://manchestersoldiers.webs.com

http://web.archive.org/web/20130807102055/http://www.powv.webs.com/
Be who you are and say what you feel -  because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind ! Dr. Seuss

Erect no gravestone .... let the Rose every year bloom for his sake ! Rilke Sonnets to Orpheus, I

Offline Marscourt

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Re: One for Liverpool Annie Part 2
« Reply #230 on: Monday 07 July 08 00:43 BST (UK) »
Hi Annie,

I think the original post was by someone else who wrote an article on the surviving "Chargers" who ended up in Australia. I have sent him (I hope) some more info on Dalton saga also, to help maybe clear up a few things that we have known in our family for a LONG time; as you can imagine. Not that any history is written in stone!!

Even the Australian War Memorial has a photo of Dalton incorrectly shown as in 8H uniform. Oh well. ;-(

Cheers,
Mike.

Offline Marscourt

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Re: One for Liverpool Annie Part 2
« Reply #231 on: Monday 07 July 08 00:47 BST (UK) »
P.S:
We hear he ended up cutting his lawn with his sword.

His medals unfortunately are no where to be found...but I am looking.

Cheers,
Mike.

Offline liverpool annie

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Re: One for Liverpool Annie Part 2
« Reply #232 on: Monday 07 July 08 01:11 BST (UK) »

Is this yours too Mike ??  :)

The Manly Daily, 7th September 1965 published this reminiscence by ‘JM’

Senior Sergeant Charles Dalton, who married Jessie Fitzsimons at Christ Church St Laurence, Sydney, was a survivor of that “Gallant Six Hundred” at the Battle of Balaclava, of whom Tennyson wrote in his famous poem.
Charles and Jessie had nine children, all of whom were born at Government House, Sydney, with the exception of Ernestina, who was christened at Goulburn. They were -  James Burrows, Ernestina, Charles Albin, Jessie Maria, Antoinette Mary, George Conrade, Adelaide, Roberta Alexandra and Emily Emma Sarah.
Charles Dalton, who died in 1891, and whose head-stone is well preserved at Manly, was the Senior Sergeant in charge of the Governor’s Escort, and belonged to the 8th King’s Royal Irish Hussars. He served in the Crimea and Turkey, at Alma, Balaclava, Inkerman and Sebastopol and in India at the siege of Kotah, recapture of Chundaree, Kotah Ki Seari, capture of Gwalior, Powrie, Sindwah and Koonayr.
Dalton was reputed to be the finest shot and horseman of his day, and helped on more than one occasion to try to capture some bushrangers on the Goulburn plains.
He had come out from England with Lord and Lady Young, and remained in charge of the Governor’s escort, successively for 25 years, until he died. His widow, Jessie, and the children then went to live at their cottage called Gwalior,after one of the old battles in India. The cottage was situated at the corner of Condamine Street and Sydney Road, This valuable corner property was sold in 1919 by the family after Jessie Dalton followed her husband to the burial place reserved for her, beside him, at Manly, and where Emily Emma Sarah is now ‘at rest’ (Manly Cemetery Plot B129, Charles Dalton, buried 1891, son of Sarah; plot B128, his wife Jessie Dalton, buried 17 December 1919; plot B130, their daughter Emily Emma Sarah Jordan, buried 1 September 1965.)
Proof is available of other properties owned by the family at Manly until after WWI, as well as the Lots 1 to 5 on the Condamine Street Sydney Road corner already mentioned. They were Lots 6, 7, 8, 9 at West and New Streets, Balgowlah; also Lot 4, situated at the corner of Redan and Almora Streets, Mosman.
At one time this old soldier owned the whole of Cremorne Point, besides Centennial Park, which he later presented to his friend Sir Henry Parkes, who in turn gave this park in perpetuity to the people. Dalton wanted to have a drive built right around the foreshores of Sydney harbour in those early days, but three or four families with waterfront properties exerted their influence to stop it.
After the attempted shooting of the 1st Duke of Edinburgh at Clontarf by a Sinn Feiner, Charles Dalton slept in the same room as the two Princes who were then visiting Government House, Sydney, to guard them from harm. The second Dalton child was baptised Ernestina by permission of the Duke of Edinburgh in January 1868, who stood as the godfather

http://www.manly.nsw.gov.au/IgnitionSuite/uploads/docs/D%20Manly%20Biographical.pdf
Cooper : Muels : Howarth : Every : Price : King

http://web.archive.org/web/20130407030702/http://www.freewebs.com/liverpoolannie

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http://web.archive.org/web/20130807102055/http://www.powv.webs.com/
Be who you are and say what you feel -  because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind ! Dr. Seuss

Erect no gravestone .... let the Rose every year bloom for his sake ! Rilke Sonnets to Orpheus, I

Offline Marscourt

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Re: One for Liverpool Annie Part 2
« Reply #233 on: Monday 07 July 08 01:25 BST (UK) »
Well, that was written by, I believe, by my dear old (deceased in 1992) Aunty Joy Muir (nee Neville); my father's eldest sister.
Unfortunately, there does not seem to be any evidence to support the comments in regards to ownership of Centennial Park and are therefore most likely not correct. The Cremorne Point foreshore ownership and plan is also "questionable", to say the least, from what little I have been told and we know. There does not seem to be any other evidence in existence to support this. Maybe one day, more evidence, beside this article will turn up?
You also notice, she never uses the word "POLICE" in the article. A sign of those times I'm afraid. He was a Senior SGT of Police and only a Private in the 8H.
My Grandfather, a Thomas Walker NEVILLE, was also a NSW Police officer, (married Antoinette DALTON) and eventually became a Dentist in Mosman, Sydney. My father never knew that even his own father had served as a NSW Police officer, until I told him so, after doing some research. He was shocked...or should I say dumbfounded.
Like I said, the word "Police" was not held in the highest regard in those days...or maybe even today in some circles.
Cheers,
Mike.