Author Topic: Boswell Help Please!!  (Read 35326 times)

Offline suzard

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Re: Boswell Help Please!!
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 12 March 08 15:49 GMT (UK) »
1871
Hill Cliff lane
Ashborne
Derbys
Caravan 1
nelson Boswell Head 38 Travelling Grinder Swinnington Staffs
Jane wife 40 Selby Yorks
Luesa? daughter U 23 Repton Staffs
Sarah daughter U 21 Barton Notts
Elias son 16 Mickleover Debys
Emilie daughter 14Heol Derbys
Horace son 13 Mickleover Derbys
Charley son 8 Tutbury Staffs
(all family dittoed as being travelling Grinders)

Caravan 2
Sampson boswell Head m 44 travelling grinder Solsbury oxfordshire
Caroline wife 30 Mickleover Derbys
Vasta daughter 10 Mira leicestershire
Walter son 4 Takenal  Derbys ( poss should be Ticknal)
Mary aunt W 65 Dunningham Lincs
Isaiah nephew mar 36 Micklover Derbys

RG10 3596 77 18

(I know this isaiah's age differs -but it seems his age differs census to census - 35 in 1881 and 63 in 1901 -there is a possible death for him which puts him b. 1839)

Suz
Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline suzard

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Re: Boswell Help Please!!
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 12 March 08 16:10 GMT (UK) »
1861
Beggarlee
greasley parish
Notts
(just down the road from where I am-still occasionally have travellers there today)
address given as "Gypsies"
Rhoda Boswell head W 50 Household manager Norfolk
Samson son U 30 Cutler Lincs
Lucretia daughter U 27 Staffs
Dillinda daughter U 24 Warwicks
Susanna Granddaughter 6 Derbys
Mary Visitor U 55 Lincs
Isaiah neice? (male) U 26 Brazier and Cutler Mickleover Derbys
Emma widow 24 Belper Derbys
Eliza neice 23 Repton Derby
Samintury? neice 4 Newall Derby
RG9 2433 7 8

wondering if mary b. Lincs was maybe Isaiah's mother

Suz
Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline AshkeJ

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Re: Boswell Help Please!!
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 12 March 08 16:31 GMT (UK) »
Aha!

On the IGI earlier I found the baptism for Sampson Boswell in Warwickshire, son of Nathaniel Boswell and Rodey. Could Rhoda be the same Rodey?

Hmmm whilst the mother of your nephew isn't your aunt, I wonder if it's the same Mary in both the 1861 and the 1871 cesus returns?
Holborow/Hurcombe/Halliday - Glos/Wilts
Palmer/Fisher - Collingbournes, Wiltshire
Murray - West Lulworth, Dorset


Offline suzard

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Re: Boswell Help Please!!
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 12 March 08 16:56 GMT (UK) »
I wondered if it was the same mary -looks a possibility - maybe the nephew relationship referred to Isiah being Sampsons mother (who wasn't with them on that census)'s nephew Sounds complicated hope you know what I mean

Found an 1841 census entry -very vague -but may be some connection
1841
Blagrove Lane
Littleover
mickloeover
Derbys
Moses Boswell 55 Gypsy
James 50
Female 40
Female 30
Female 25
Female 20 male 6
Female 4
Female 3
all written as Not known Boswell
HO107 189 3 3

Don't suppose it will help much -but as i found it thought I'd post!

Suz
Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline CitizenSmith

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Re: Boswell Help Please!!
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 12 March 08 17:37 GMT (UK) »
Hi

Again in Bob's book: he gives the father and mother of Isaiah Boswell as Moses Boswell (? died Dec qtr 1855) and Mary aka Trinity or Pehanet (? died March qtr 1858, Rotherham, as 'Pysannet'). So Suz's last ref of Moses is very pertinent.

There's also another Yeomans link here: according to Bob, Moses had a first wife named Esther and by her a son called Henry (bp 1826, Sutton on the Hill, Derbyshire). Henry's wife/partner was a Mary Ann Yeomans.

The narrative on this branch of the Boswells (the Black Jack Line) goes over many pages. Dates aren't always included because some of the content comes from sources like the Journal of the Gypsy Lore Society, where articles were often based on oral history.

Bob doesn't attempt to link the different Boswell lines into one huge tree so there's no indication if or how the Shadrack Line and the Black Jack Line connect further back.

Sharon
Smith - East Anglia & Lancashire
Taylor - East Anglia
Draper
Hope
Shaw
Gray
Boswell
Lovell
Robinson
Chilcott
All Blackpool Gypsies
"Royal Epping Forest Gypsies": ball-giving group
"Borrow's Gypsies": the people that the novelist George Borrow (1803-1881) knew and wrote about

Offline AshkeJ

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Re: Boswell Help Please!!
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 12 March 08 18:11 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for the 1841 census info, Suz!

Sharon, that's wonderful, thank you! I don't know if this is technically illegal, but I wonder would it be possible to obtain a photocopy of the relevant pages of Bob Dawson's book concerning the Black Jack Line, please? Or is there an online resource that gives the same information as contained in The Genealogy of the Romany Boswells?

If not, could you give me the ISBN or ISSN number for the book, please? That way I can see if the library system can track it down! So much easier for them if there is an ISBN number!!

I am now a little confused regarding Sampson and Isaiah and the exact relationship between them. If you look at the dates then it would make more sense is Sampson's father and Moses were brothers, rather than Moses and Sampson himself.

Dominic
Holborow/Hurcombe/Halliday - Glos/Wilts
Palmer/Fisher - Collingbournes, Wiltshire
Murray - West Lulworth, Dorset

Offline suzard

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Re: Boswell Help Please!!
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 12 March 08 19:21 GMT (UK) »
by the way the 1841 census gives occupation as Gypsy and there is no "yes or no" for whether any were b.in county or not

at least it found moses!

Can't locate him in 51 though

Suz
Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline An65

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Re: Boswell Help Please!!
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 12 March 08 20:37 GMT (UK) »
Not suprising you cant find them really, in the 1841 and 1851 census (maybe 1861 as well cant remember offhand) it was not required for an enumerator to record people not living in houses. Generally, you are lucky if you find anyone.

Now Bob Dawson Ive always found to be an extremely helpful and amicable fellow, and I would suggest you contact him direct with regard to info on this family, and/or info on his book.

Here is how you can contact him directly

http://www.robertdawson.co.uk/contact.html

With regard to Moses Boswell, I found a few bits myself which might prove useful. Most of this came directly from the IGI online
http://www.familysearch.org

Moses Boswell b.cir 1815 d.1855 Etwall Derbys
  married Trinity/Trenit/Traynet/Traynette (think it might also be Fraynet!!) Hasring or Herring or Hearn or Heron m.06.11.1826 Duffield, Derbys
Now I found they had at least two children:

Clara c.08.03.1835 Alfreton Derbys
Merner c.16.06.1844 Maxstoke Wrks

Then A* Moses Boswell *ie I dont know if its the same guy
had three children by a Mary which may or not be Trinity or Esther or someone else entirely.

Emma c.24.12.1838 Breadsall Dby
Gentilia c.25.12.1841 Breadsall Dby
John c.01.03.1846 Bradby Dby

Then Moses Boswell and Esther had:

Solena c.03.05.1822 Edibngale Stf
Henry c.20.08.1826 Sutton On The Hill Dby
Aaron c.18.04.1830 Rand Lincs
Elijahnesus c.31.12.1831 Horkstow Lincs
Eliza c.24.05.1841 Malpas Cheshire
Letitia c.06.05.1844 Leigh Stf.

There may be more hidden on the IGI I havent seen/found.

Trinity Traynet etc Hearn/Herring etc is Trenit d/o Miller Heron (aka Young) and his wife Winnifruita Boswell, daughter of Shadrack Boswell. According to the Heron Pedigree deposited with the JGLS by the Revd George Hall.

Miller Young appears on the 1851 census and reputedly was born circa 1791 in Yorkshire. He was a widower.

Offline An65

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Re: Boswell Help Please!!
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 12 March 08 20:57 GMT (UK) »
Now I have some stuff on Shadrack Boswells family (and suposed family) but I cant remember for the life of me where it all came from because I had an enormous computer crash and lost absolutely everything some months ago. By Luck I had been wise enough to write on these and other messageboards and was able to pick up the threads pretty quickly. Well that and having sent the entire family history to my cousin abt a year before the crash. So some things I have but are a year out of date and Im playing catch up and others Im going on what Ive written online for others. Heaven help us all!!!



ok without further ado:

Shadrach/Shadrack Boswell and Elizabeth Buckley or Smith

Salvino born circa 1772
Margaret born circa 1774
James born circa 1777

Tyso/Taiso/Tisso etc c.30.08.1778 Epping Forest Essex, married Sophia Hearn/Herring by whom he had Sylvester who had Trafalgar etc.
He married Hannah Williams/Smith (a wid) 29.09.1823 Hull Yorks. He died on 5.08.1831 at Tetford, Lincs, after being struck by lightening with his friend/cousin Edward 'No Name" Hearn/Heron who also died that night. They went into a barn to find straw to keep their tents dry, and the barn was hit, killing them both outright. They are buried together at Tetford and their gravestone still stands.

By Cinderella Buckley/Smith poss a sister of Elizabeth, poss Elizabeth herself,

Lewis b.cir 1781
Lewis b.cir 1792 both of whom were either baptised under Smith or Buckley.

By a third wife, little known about it would appear frm the JGLS - Mesila,
he had:

Winifruita (often called Winifred) b.cir 1772 Asheldam Ex
Caravania c.1784 Layer De La Haye Ex
Matilda c.1785 Hackney, Mx.

There was also suposed to be:

Manful, married Rebecca Williams who went to the USA
Seni (probably listed as Sarah in any official docs)
Clark who married Deleta Boswell the daughter of Tisso/Tyso/Taiso
Sophia who married Guilderoy Scamp
Abel who married Lucy Scamp
and Shadrack/h Jnr who was transported.

A Clark Boswell and Delevy/Lepha/Aleaf had:
Mineretta/Miseretta c.16.01.1825 Tibberton Worc who reputedly married Plato Boswell s/o Abel and Lucy
Daniel Leavy c.25.12.1832 Gedney Hill, Lincs
Riley c.1830 Whittlesey Cambs

Theres also a Clark and Elizabeth who had Plato (presumably the same Plato as above who is generally listed in the JGLS and gypsy genealogies as being s/o Abel and Lucy Scamp)

Plato: c.09.11.1817 Rouse Lench Worcs. Which makes things entertainingly confusing, espically since Riley was also generally listed as being a son of Abel and Lucy! Its all good fun.

I dont have Bob Dawsons book (maybe a future birthday pressie!) so have no idea on his take on things. Soz.