Change of Occupations

[243rose]

Little Louisa b 1870 address is 14 Eltham Street, Walworth, London.
Marriage certificate for the Anderson/Bates union was Thomas Passage for both of them, Thomas Passage was presumably the Bethnal Green area.. i seem to recall confirming it some years ago.

Iain

[lizdb]

So birth cert looks definitely her.
Not yet convinced on the marriage!
If in Eltham Street Newington in April 1870 (birtrh)
And in Eltham Street Newington in 1871 (census)
Unlikely to be in Thomas Passage Bethnal Green in June 1870

What occupation does the Henry on the marriage cert give?
What age for Louisa? If "ours" she will be under 21 -a minor

[243rose]

Thanks for yr last.
Have been away trying to set up my mothers new dvd recorder with sky etc and failing miserabley.

i think the fact that they were married in Bethnal Green is okay as that is the immediate area of Louisa's birth in the Shoreditch/ Clerkenwell area.

On the mariage certificate they are both described as 'full'.
They were married in the parish of st james the great in Bethnal Green by banns.
Henry's occupation is 'painter'.

I was thinking that as Louisa had given birth 2 months before the marriage when she was 17 that she had probably lied about her age. I think that finding a marriage where the  parents details on the birth certifcate are identical to that given on the marriage certificate  down to the name of the father and his ocupation and the maiden name of the mother too remote.

What do you think

When i purchased the certificate for Louisa Anderson registered in 1852 in Holborn the fathers name was as i have said
James Anderson a clog Maker.
The mothers name was Sarah 'Feline' - the writing is really poor.
On free BMD in the DEC QTR is the marriage of a James Anderson and a Sarah Feline in Bethnal Green.

In the 1861 census there is a James Anderson 'clog maker' with a 'Louisa' the correct age but with Susannah as his wife ??

[lizdb]

I dont know what to think!

Carol and I have retraced the path you have taken, and if that marriage says Henry is a Painter then it certainly looks like the right one.

But something doesnt seem right to me. They were living as a couple in Etham Street, well at least little Louisa was born there, and they pretended they were married when registering her.
They are still at that address on the census.
Why then, when they married, between these two events, did they go to Bethnal Green? OK, not that far.
It is not, as far as we know, to be married from her parents place  -they were in St Lukes. And it does not look like family were witnesses. And she has lied about her age, so unlikely her parents were involved at all - if she had their blessing she would have given her correct age and had their consent. Witness, as Carol suggested, may even just have been someone who was around on the day for a different wedding.
But - they must have lived there for three weeks at least for the banns to have been read.
Seems odd, they were working class, so would probably be renting rooms at Eltham Street, they would not have afforded to pay for more accomodation in Bethnal Green.
Why didnt they marry locally?
Speaks of running away to somewhere they were not known to marry.
But with the arrival of the baby just a month or two before, you would have thuoght family etc would be keen for them to marry a.s.a.p.

I have struggled to find the possible James and Susannah in later censuses, just to see if anything comes up to help. found a 25 yr old Susanna Anderson, bn St Lukes,  in Spitalfields RG10 503 14 22, might be her sister though age out.

There are loads of Andersons bn St Lukes around.

Looks like either Sarah died and James remarried to a Susannah, or the names got interchanged. Or maybe the census is wrong - we dont have others to compare!

I can see your frustration on this - it is so close but somehow has that element of doubt.

Will keep thinking and looking, and I know Carol will too.
I am just about sure yuo have got the right family - but would be so much better to find some other evidence.

[lizdb]

Out of interest 1851 has some "Felines" in St Lukes, and in Shoreditch, tho cant see a Sarah (or a Susannah)

[243rose]

i had always thought Feline was my bad attempt at reading until the free BMD came up with a marriage of a James Anderson and Sarah Feline in Bethnal Green.
so near yet so far............. The Henry Bates saga is even more frustrating...that is another story.
i have done pretty well in most of my other lines which are mainly on my dads side.
My mums side were poorer and i am bogged down on several lines of hers, mainly in London.
Anyway, i think you two should be made honourary detectives at least.
i think next week i will walk to the London Metropolitan Archives with a view to looking at the original entry for Henry Bates and Louisa Andersons marriage entry..there is something fishy about it. I'm not even happy with Henry's details of his father.
I haven't been there before so it should be an interesting trip.

Cheers
iain.

[charlotteCH]

Iain,
 Are you going to recruit lizb and carol into the Force? Seems they could be of great use. 
This whole investigation is fascinating.
Sorry I can't add anything to what you have but am following  with interest.
Thanks,
charlotte

[243rose]

you can be one too.
we'll start a squad.....then have a tea break.

i e-mailed one of englands foremost clog makers who had this to say about the occupations of clog and mat makers.


1860 was at the start of the heyday of clogmaking, a good clogmaker could have expected a steady stream of work, and could have made a fair living. Mat making either rush mats or coire (coconut fibre) was relitivly unskilled, and poorly paid. Perhaps your ancester had an accedent or became infirm. another possability  is that he upset the local clogmakers association, and was expelled. the maffia could learn a lot from the old trade associations, if you weren't a member you couldn't work for a member, or set up on your own, they would subsidise a local compettitor and put you out of business, hard times! Read Henry Meyhew's accounts of the time.