Author Topic: William Williams' in Wales...Is he a lost cause?  (Read 26730 times)

Offline lizdb

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Re: William Williams' in Wales...Is he a lost cause?
« Reply #63 on: Wednesday 09 April 08 12:46 BST (UK) »
William died in 1895.

Jane is in workhouse in 1902, dies there then.

Dtr Margaret (bn 1892) is with uncle and Aunt in 1901
Dtrs Martha Jane (bn 1893) and Rachel (bn 1895) and Jane herself cant be found anywhere in 1901.

As janes address at death is given as late of Kendal Street, I was hoping we might find something at that address in 1901 that could be her (if so must be drastically mis-indexed, as they havent been found despite all the usual tricks at searching)

Have I got that summary for Carol right, Allegs?

Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline alllegs

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Re: William Williams' in Wales...Is he a lost cause?
« Reply #64 on: Wednesday 09 April 08 13:13 BST (UK) »
Pretty much Liz,   8)

Just to metion that Martha Jane was also known as Pattie.

I was just wondering that maybe perhaps Kendal Street was a red herring?  William's death cert says he died at Stapylton Street and Jane's death cert says she was the Widow of Wm Wms of Kendal Street - but the certs say he was always at Stapylton Street....

Perhaps in her anguish of her little sisters death at such a young age, informant and sister, Elizabeth got confused and Kendal Street was said by mistake......? 

Just a theory....

Legs
xxxx
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
DUR-Bainbridge,Hodgson,Richardson,Walker,Thompson,Armory,Wynn,Humble,Dunn,Chapman,Herin
YKS-Bradley,Hellawell,Dransfield,Sanderson,Gledhill,Mallinson,Tyas,Thornton,Nobel,Brook,Senior,Bower,Kay,Hirst,Smith,Lockwood, Clayton,Rollinson,Swallow
NTHNTS-Hubbard,Line,Goate,Tyler,Weed,Warren,Brown,Hollowell,Bird,Kirby,Dolby,Gilbert,Wootton
NFK-Burton,Myhill,Fisher,Thompson
LNRK-Neilson,Dudson,Forrest,McNight,Paterson
WL-Williams

Offline osprey

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Re: William Williams' in Wales...Is he a lost cause?
« Reply #65 on: Wednesday 09 April 08 13:42 BST (UK) »
those even numbers we're missing aren't mentioned on the National Archives site. Perhaps someone on the Yorkshire board has the census on disc?

 :-\
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline lizdb

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Re: William Williams' in Wales...Is he a lost cause?
« Reply #66 on: Wednesday 09 April 08 15:26 BST (UK) »
Allegs -
Depends how you read the death cert
Is it widow of  .........   W W of Kendal Street
or
widow of W W ..........of Kendal Str

first one implying that  W W lived at Kendal Str and she is his widow. But we know that isnt right as he was in Staypleton Str

second one implies she is the widow of W W , and she was of Kendal Str. That is how I took it. That between W W 's death and birth of Rachel in 1895 at  Stayp. Str,  and her going into the workhouse, she had moved to Kendal Street.

If she is not in the workhiouse in 1901 (and shes not, I have checked) and she is not in Kendal Str in 1901 (we have checked apart from the missing even numbers) and she is not in Stayp Str (Osprey has checked) then she must have gone somewhere else (!) between 1895 and 1901 after the census, and gone to Kend Str after the census and before her admission to workhouse.

Phew................... well I think it makes sense!!
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline alllegs

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Re: William Williams' in Wales...Is he a lost cause?
« Reply #67 on: Wednesday 09 April 08 15:46 BST (UK) »
It makes perfect sense (I think!), the death certs reads widow of Wm Wms Iron shearer Kendal Street, Mbro - I read that as if Wm was of Kendal Street, but he isn't, so I guess that at some point between 1895 and 1902 Jane must have been at Kendal Street, but not at the time of the 1901 census...  I can't see tehm on the US 1900 census.

So where the heck was she, Martha and Rachel in 1901?  On holiday.............drunk in a ditch..........?

I wonder if after the death of hubby she attempted to emigrate? passenger lists?  Martha did eventually end up in Florida....

Blackpool is niggling with me too, I just had a chat with my grans 2nd cousin, he is in the USA, his mother, was Evelyn, Elizabeth Ann Hewitts daughter.  He remembers his mother and Martha/Pattie talking fondly about Blackpool as it being an escape from the cruel family....he was only small so doesn't remember much but something was said about beatings.  Also Jane and Williams daughter Margaret was my great gran, she died very young too, in 1927 when my gran was 6 months old of TB.  Gran and her brothers were brought up by their paternal grandparents and their mother and her family were not allowed to be spoken about, it was a taboo subject.  Gran only live doors away from her 2nd cousin as a child but never knew he was related.  She only knew Aunt Pattie live in the US and sent her gifts of pretty dresses and shoes and jewellery.  This all stopped when Evelyn and kids moved out there to live with Pattie/Martha.

More cud to chew over, not that it gives much to work with.....

Thank you all so much
Legs
xxxx

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
DUR-Bainbridge,Hodgson,Richardson,Walker,Thompson,Armory,Wynn,Humble,Dunn,Chapman,Herin
YKS-Bradley,Hellawell,Dransfield,Sanderson,Gledhill,Mallinson,Tyas,Thornton,Nobel,Brook,Senior,Bower,Kay,Hirst,Smith,Lockwood, Clayton,Rollinson,Swallow
NTHNTS-Hubbard,Line,Goate,Tyler,Weed,Warren,Brown,Hollowell,Bird,Kirby,Dolby,Gilbert,Wootton
NFK-Burton,Myhill,Fisher,Thompson
LNRK-Neilson,Dudson,Forrest,McNight,Paterson
WL-Williams