Kings Own Scottish Borderers, 25th regiment foot

[BW252]

Ev

thanks for this - I am way behind you in correcting this post.   Many thanks

Harry

[BrassMusic]

I am trying to find out the birth date of John William Fenton who was in the 25th foot from 1842 to 1864. He was then transferred to 1/10th foot. The inscription on his grave says he was born in 12 March 1831. His pension record assumes that he was born in July 1828. But I found a GRO regimental birth record saying he was born in 12 March (same day as the grave) 1829. Although his father was a sergeant of 65th this record says it was produced in 25th foot depot in Kinsale. There is a name of adjutant S.Bristow, Lt. (According to Army List there was only Peter Henry Bristow in 1829 ) Clergyman was Mr.Thompson. I looked at WO12 at TNA but could not find depot of 25th stationed in Kinsale. The father's regiment was in Waterford in March 1829. But I could not find any record that the father was seconded to 25th during this period. The main unit of 25th was in the West Indies and the detachment was in Scotland. Can any one tell me where was depot of 25th in 1829?

[Tyrannosaurus]

The dates for which I have a depot location for the 25th in that period are as follows.
September 1827 - Aberdeen
September 1828 – Aberdeen
July 1829 – Aberdeen
January 1830 – Edinburgh
January 1832 – Paisley

The Aberdeen depot is mentioned in the regimental history.
http://archive.org/stream/cihm_06993#page/n321/mode/2up

The 25th left for Barbadoes in December 1825. They appear to have been at Kinsale in November and December 1825. They had formed depot companies some months beforehand. From the newspapers the depot arrived at Isle of Wight in December 1825 and headed for Scotland, and it appears that they only spent part of their time there at Aberdeen. The detachment in Scotland would have been the depot.

London Gazette, 31 August, 1830, near bottom first column, there’s a Skeffington Bristow to be Ensign 25th Foot. http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/18722/pages/1857

Also in Army List 1831.
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=JQAcAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA187

The 65th Regiment moved from Waterford to Fermoy about June 1829. In October the service companies moved to Cork to embark for Barbadeos. The 65th depot remained at Fermoy until November when they moved to Spike Island.

In January 1831 there’s a report of the 65th depot moving from Fermoy and Michelstown to Kinsale. They left Kinsale for Cork in November that year.

Rex

[Tyrannosaurus]

Because of the high death rate of soldiers in the West Indies a recruiting party of the 25th Regimental depot from Scotland may have paid a visit to their colleagues in Ireland to try make up their numbers, and perhaps got stuck with some paperwork.

Are you sure the regimental birth record is 1829 and not 1831?

Rex

[km1971]

There is a very good chance that they were two different people. John Fenton of the 25th and 10th Foot has no middle initial in his army records (papers and musters). He enlisted aged 13 and 9 months, and the army at least believed he was born 12 July 1828.

He enlisted 11 days after a Private Frederick Fenton was transferred to the 25th from the 76th Foot. This may be worth investigating. Within weeks they had both sailed for the Cape (where they picked up the service companies) and then on to India, and the last I have on Frederick is that he was still with the 25th in Madras in Q3 1844. He does not appear to have received a pension.

Frederick was one of 383 men transferred to the 25th from other Regiments prior to sailing. Each man received a bounty of 30 shillings. The Depot was in Winchester and later moved to Chatham.

The record says that John's intended residence was Yedo, Japan. Are you descended from him or the 'other one'? The musters from late 1860s will give details of John's wife plus ages of any children if you need confirmation.

Ken

[BrassMusic]

Thank you Rex and Ken !
     No, I am not a descendant but I am a Japanese doing a research about him. He was a bandmaster of 1/10th and taught the Japanese brass music in Japan. Ken, thank you for interesting suggestion. I will look for Frederick Fenton. How old was he when John Fenton joined the 25th ? Frederick might have been John Fenton's kin. Or, since John Fenton, the father died in the West Indies in 1833, the mother married to a man in the 25th. That might be Frederick. But I am pretty sure the bandmaster was John Fenton, who joined the 25th in 1842 when he was a boy.
     His birth is most confusing. Especially GRO record (next time i will send the attachment), which says he was born in 12 March 1829 and on the top of the certificate it says Depot 25th Regiment of Foot and under Place and Date of the Child's Baptism it says Kinsale 12 April 1829.
     Let me repeat my questions again. First question; was the Depot really in Kinsale ? Rex, thanks for the regimental history. As you  say according to WO12 depot of 25th was in Aberdeen not in Ireland. Even if the depot was in Kinsale why was it there? To recruit, maybe. But why not Aberdeen? If the depot was in Kinsale long enough to register a birth and baptism there should be a record in muster roll about being in Kinsale. It was not a day trip ! But I cannot find it, at least in WO12.
     Second question is why a birth of a child of 65th foot recorded in Depot 25th ? In the muster roll father seems to be always with the 65th, never was seconded to 25th. May be the mother had some connection with the 25th ? Her maiden name seems to be Towers. Judith Towers. May be a brother or father was in 25th in 1829?
     Third question. On the Fenton's grave stone in the US it says 12 March 1831. I forgot to tell you that I found original baptismal record of St Multose Church in Kinsale which says the baptism was in April 1831. So I started to think that  the first baby died. But I have not found any burial record. Also. it is higly unlikely that two John Fentons were born on the same 12 March. Or he was born in 1829 and he was baptized twice ?
     I also found in 1831 army list Skeffington Bristow. But it was Adjutant Lieutenant S Bristow who signed the GRO regimental birth register of 1829. There was Lt. Peter Henry Bristow in the 25th in 1829. So was S had to be P or can ensign Skeffington Bristow be a adjutant ?

[km1971]

Bandmaster John Fenton did enlist in the 25th Foot when he was 13 years and 9 months. We know this from his record on Findmypast. The record also gives the date he turned 18 so the army believed 'Bandmaster' John was born 12 July 1828.

Further research is needed to find Frederick’s age.

Regarding the Kinsale birth, as Rex says the 25th’s Depot was in Scotland, but there could have been a detachment of men from the 25th on the 65th ‘s muster in Kinsale. It is not unknown for a regiment to have men from other regiments on their pay/ muster book. What is unusual is having an Adjutant with such a detachment. It would help if you could post a copy of the document giving the officer’s name.

Ken

[BrassMusic]

Here is the GRO record. The adjutant's name is S Bristow. His rank is lieutenant. If this is Skeffington Bristow he was not enlisted in 1829. He joined the 25th in 1830. He was still an ensign even in 1831. Peter Henry Bristow was with the 25th in 1829 as lieutenant.

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[garthj]

I am new to this discussion but would greatly appreciate finding more information about a supposed ancestor from Augher in County Tyrone, in particular the circumstances of his recruitment and the names of his parents. John Turbitt was discharged a private from the 2nd Battalion, 25th Regiment of Foot 19/12/1861 aged 30yrs 8 months. He was entitled to 16yrs 119 days pension after service which included 7yrs 247 days abroad in the Mediterranean, Crimea and the East Indies. After discharge he lived in Augher and was married with children - I am not sure if he married while in the army or what his Augher wife Mary's maiden name was.
I believe he may have been a brother of my great grandfather James Turbitt who emigrated to New Zealand in 1864 but cannot clearly establish the connection. If his army records could throw any light it would be immensely helpful.