Author Topic: Kings Own Scottish Borderers, 25th regiment foot  (Read 37892 times)

Offline km1971

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Re: Kings Own Scottish Borderers, 25th regiment foot
« Reply #108 on: Friday 18 November 16 00:15 GMT (UK) »
I do not have a copy of the information you need. If you really wish to know where a soldier was month by month you have to look up the muster books covering his full service. As I said in my last post to Mo, the published 'locations of station' of regiments are for the CO. If you are looking for an individual you need to look up each muster in case the man was on detachment. You will then. for example, know which church records to research; if it is family BMD information you are after.

The musters were created by the Paymaster, so they also contain details of a man's promotions/demotions, award of good conduct pay, punishment, if in hospital. on board ship , on furlo, awol, in prison awaiting trail etc. Indeed anything affecting his pay and pensions etc, while he was the responsibility of a particular Paymaster.

In your case you can also look at the musters for the 16th Foot, starting with the one for 1859/60 and working backwards.

Ken

Offline Mofamily

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Re: Kings Own Scottish Borderers, 25th regiment foot
« Reply #109 on: Friday 18 November 16 10:01 GMT (UK) »
Hi Mo

You will need to look up the muster book for the 25th for the time of his birth. Records that say where a particular regiment was usually refers to the headquarters, ie the commanding officer. I cannot find a reference to the HQ being in Jersey in that period.

The musters should tell you if a man was on detachment to a different location.

Ken

I have now found a reference to the Regiment being in Jersey at the exact date of William's birth.

http://www.napoleon-series.org/military/organization/Britain/Infantry/Regiments/c_25thFoot.html

Thanks Ken and Skoosh.

Mo

Offline trikidiki

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Re: Kings Own Scottish Borderers, 25th regiment foot
« Reply #110 on: Sunday 25 December 16 00:07 GMT (UK) »
Good Evening/Morning,

I'm hoping to find any information available about my gt grandfather who served in the 25th foot.

He was born in Beaford, Devon in Jan 1858.
Served a five year apprenticeship as a shoemaker. Then joined the 25th foot, so would assume he was about 18 making it approximately 1876. His service no. was 2815
On 28 July 1880 he deserted the regiment in Devonport. Listed in the Police Gazette.

He laid low for nearly year (though there is a tangible record in the 1881 census). He then joined the newly amalgamated Devonshire Regiment on 13 July 1881 under an assumed name of Francis  (Frank) Dawson. I have his service record in the Devonshires in which he claimed he had previously served in the militia. In 1888 while serving in India he revealed his true identity and signed an affidavit confirming it. He went on to serve for nearly 30 years in the Devonshires, finally discharged in 1910. My grandfather recollected in his writings, as a child he would sleep in the rolled hides in his workshop, so it seems he continued his trade within the regiment. In "A REGIMENTAL HISTORY OF THE 1ST BATTALION DEVONSHIRE REGIMENT DURING THE BOER WAR 1899-1902 BY COLONEL M. JACSON"

"We have all read realistic descriptions of troops on the march in South Africa, the writer using all his cunning to depict the war-worn dirty condition of his heroes, seeming to glean satisfaction from their grease-stained khaki. It must be admitted that the South African War is responsible for a somewhat changed condition of thought as regards cleanliness and its relation to smartness. No such abstraction disturbed the Devons; a Devon man was always clean. Individuals of some corps could be readily identified by their battered helmets or split boots; not so the Devons."

I like to think of that as a personal tribute to him.

Any information that anyone has from the 25th foot's  musters would be very welcome.

Any ideas why the 25th foot was in Devonport and where he was likely to have served in the preceding years, I am still reading around the subject but believe the 25th were part of the Peshwar Valley Field Force around the time he would have been serving. Any pointers to texts to read would be great too.

Most of this information was gleaned by my uncle, his grandson and namesake, John Bennett who is a contributor on these boards.

Merry Christmas.

trikidiki


P.S. My uncle has previously made a request on this forum:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=299177.0

This was before he found the details of the desertion and hence the correct regiment, so I feel it is more at home being asked in this topic.







Offline km1971

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Re: Kings Own Scottish Borderers, 25th regiment foot
« Reply #111 on: Monday 26 December 16 07:54 GMT (UK) »
Served a five year apprenticeship as a shoemaker. Then joined the 25th foot, so would assume he was about 18 making it approximately 1876. His service no. was 2815

Was he called John Bennett in the 25th?

Regimental number 2566 enlisted 27th March 1880. So #2815 would be later than that. They were still in Devonport. That might be a better fit for when he finished his apprenticeship as that usually happened at 21.

The mergers of 1881 introduced permanent depots. Almost all infantry regiments had two battalions. Ideally one served overseas and one served at home. The home battalions moved around the UK as they had before the merger. So being in Devonport was no surprise. The regiment was the Kings Own Borderers in his day.

Surprised a time-served shoemaker joined the army, as he would have been paid a lot less. The 1st Bn were in India from 1877. The 2nd Bn were with the Depot in Devonport.

#2517 Benjamin Bennett joined at Taunton on 12 Feb 1880, aged 19 years 11 months. He reached the Depot on the 17th of February. There were recruiting parties as far away as London, Liverpool, York etc.

There was also #1883 John Barrett already serving Qtr 2 1879. I cannot find a John Bennett, and as I said #2815 had not been issued.

Ken

Offline trikidiki

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Re: Kings Own Scottish Borderers, 25th regiment foot
« Reply #112 on: Monday 26 December 16 11:36 GMT (UK) »
Hi

Many thanks for the fast response, Hope you had a good Christmas.

I am assuming he enlisted under the name of John Bennett. The information I have for him before that  does not suggest otherwise. He is also listed as a deserter in the Police Gazette on four occasions as John Bennett in August 1880, it references his regimental number as 2815.

Quote
Surprised a time-served shoemaker joined the army, as he would have been paid a lot less.
My Aunt is of the opinion he was running away from an irate grandfather to be in Beaford.

The missing regimental number is a mystery. I assume there is a whole block missing?

Thanks

trikidiki


As an aside. I have a similar situation in my wife's family. He is listed as 'absent' on his record in 1913 and I cannot find any reference to him as a deserter. Would he be AWOL in peacetime and a deserter had it been in wartime?


Offline km1971

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Re: Kings Own Scottish Borderers, 25th regiment foot
« Reply #113 on: Tuesday 27 December 16 09:59 GMT (UK) »
Leave in Absent Without Leave means 'permission', so covers being late from a furlough or weekend pass etc. Or nipping home to see the family. Desertion is the intention not to return. Selling his equipment would signal he was deserting.

The modern term 'leave' (as in holiday from work) comes from Absent With Leave.

Ken

Offline DarrenM

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Re: Kings Own Scottish Borderers, 25th regiment foot
« Reply #114 on: Tuesday 21 February 17 13:50 GMT (UK) »
Good Morning,

Writing to you from Canada. I see there is great interest and strong family connections to the 25th ROF. It so happens that while out metal detecting about 2 years ago in New Brunswick, I dug up a very, very old brass tunic button, which had a large 25 with a crown, across the top was written "Kings Own Borderers". I am aware that the 25th was in Canada during the Fenian Crisis of 1866, but still not sure why this would have been found in New Brunswick. It was a very historic curiosity, of which I inquired with experts of British military units in Canada during the 18th & 19th century. It remains a mystery. Just thought I would share that with you. Cheers.

Offline Scudwilson82

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Re: Kings Own Scottish Borderers, 25th regiment foot
« Reply #115 on: Friday 15 March 19 01:31 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

I'm researching my family tree and have found that my Great Great Grandfather Allan Stewart was a Sergeant in the 25th Regiment of foot.
I have found his service record in Fold3.
He was born in Paisley in 1821 and served 1838-1859. 17 years and 4 months of that abroad.
His service number was 1206.
If anyone can fill me in on any information they might be able to find I would be eternally grateful.
Many thanks

Rob

Offline alasdair_13

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Re: Kings Own Scottish Borderers, 25th regiment foot
« Reply #116 on: Friday 04 September 20 15:53 BST (UK) »
Further updates. I'ms still not really any wiser about John Connor's history befrore he married Marion Darrach. I do know now that he died of TB, not cholera, though. So if anyone can help identify his backstory I'd be grateful.

I have since discovered though, that two of his sons subsequently joined the army - the same regiment though it was the KOSB by then. William and Thomas both signed up and spent time in India.

William joined 1893 and spent time in India and Burma before being discharged in 1905. His medal can be seen here: https://www.mortonandeden.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/83.pdf

Thomas signed up in 1891 but was invalided out towards the end of the 1890s with TB. I cannot find any trace of either of them once they've been discharged sadly.


I've been away from this here a while but recently had time to do a little more digging and have uncovered some more facts and dates.

Marion Darroch did indeed marry John Connor, a private in the 25th foot in Glasgow in 1868. From various sources I've pieced together their movements. Seems they went to possibly Aldershot where they had a son, John, in 1869 then went to India. Soon after, my ancestor, Mary was born in 1871, followed by Thomas (1873 in Naini Tal) and William (1877 in Fyzabad).

John Connor dies 3 September 1877 in Fyzebad - possibly as a result of a cholera epidemic that was sweeping the area then.

Marion clearly stays in Indoa and takes up with Thomas Septimus Woodman, also  private in 25th foot, and she marries him 11/10/1878 in Fyzebad. They are in the 1881 census at the military barracks in York (with her children by John Connor, all called Woodman).

They later appear on the Scottish census of 1891 in Kinning Park, Glasgow where Thomas has clearly retired from the army and they have other children.

Still not sure of there is anything more on John Connor's life or history to be gleaned or iof that is about the limits of possible knowledge.





Hi Alasdair

It was the 1st Battalion that was in Glasgow in 1868, having returned from Canada the previous year. They moved around the British Isles until Oct 1875 when they moved to India. The 2nd Battalion were in Ceylon/India from 1863 to 1876, so it looks as if he was transferred to the 2nd Bn in time for his daughter’s birth

If he died in service they would have routinely destroyed his record after 20 years. But the best next step would be to see if his service record survives in Kew. If you cannot visit and do not wish to pay a researcher, you will have to wait to see if Findmypast put it online (due ‘by 2011’). How it is filed will depend upon when he was discharged – http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/militaryhistory/army/step4.htm

Most men were discharged 12 years after enlistment, so were aged between the ages of 30 and 35 depending upon when they enlisted.  Service before the age of 18 did not count. His service record will give you an outline of him and his service, but it probably will not give details of his wife and children.

If his record does not survive you can follow his service using the Muster Books (WO12) in Kew, starting with the one for the 1st Bn in 1868 and working backwards until he enlisted; and then working forwards from the 2nd Bn muster for 1870-71 until he dies or is discharged. You may be lucky as they started to include details of the marriage roll – wife’s forename and ages of any children – in the musters from around this period. His first entry may give his parish of birth, and/or where he enlisted and maybe his age.

Ken