Author Topic: Unusual death in Liverpool  (Read 25510 times)

Offline liverpool annie

  • Deceased † Rest In Peace
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ********
  • Posts: 13,434
  • Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Unusual death in Liverpool
« on: Monday 21 April 08 17:44 BST (UK) »


I read this on the Liverpool Forum ............. apparently this was included in a book by Richard Whittington-Egan ... how intriguing ... don't you think ??

Quote
It referred to a cylinder, which was found near the junction of Great Homer Street and Kirkdale Road, although my memory is a bit hazy on this. The site had been bombed and burned out during the blitz and when the area was cleared after the war, the cylinder, which was about seven feet long and two feet in diameter, was dislodged from the ruins of one of the buildings which had stood there and left on the waste ground where it lay for a year or so. While some children were playing round it one day, one of them noticed a mummified human foot poking out of one end and fetched the police. It was naturally assumed that the body inside must have been a casualty of the blitz and the cylinder was taken to the city mortuary to be opened. When it was, it caused something of a stir. The body inside was not a casualty of the 1940s but was that of a man dressed in the fashion of the late Victorian period and he had been dead for about seventy years. Far from being in the cylinder by accident, he was actually lying on a rough bed with a pillow at his head. The ends of the cylinder had been hammered shut from outside.

Some documentation was found on him, with letters dated from the 1870s and a forensic scientist was able to decipher his name and address from what he found

Details from Richard Whittington-Egan.

The discovery - Friday 13th July 1945
The location - The corner of Fulford street and Great Homer Street
Date of death - possibly July 4th 1885
Identified as - (probably) Thomas Cregeen Williams (paperwork in pocket)
Resided at - 29 Clifton Road, Anfield.
Married to - Elizabeth Lea (died aged 42 - buried at Anfield Cemetery)
Place of work - Owned T.C. Williams & Co. paintworks at 18-20 Leeds St
Cause of death - Unknown.
Reason for death - Possible suicide - as he was being inspected by accountants.
Or - Possible accident as the result of crawling in there to sleep.
Cooper : Muels : Howarth : Every : Price : King

http://web.archive.org/web/20130407030702/http://www.freewebs.com/liverpoolannie

http://web.archive.org/web/20130407191115/http://manchestersoldiers.webs.com

http://web.archive.org/web/20130807102055/http://www.powv.webs.com/
Be who you are and say what you feel -  because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind ! Dr. Seuss

Erect no gravestone .... let the Rose every year bloom for his sake ! Rilke Sonnets to Orpheus, I

Offline ShaunJ

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 24,902
    • View Profile
Re: Unusual death in Liverpool
« Reply #1 on: Monday 21 April 08 17:58 BST (UK) »
It's also covered in "Scotland Road" by Terry Cooke (1987). (On pages 99 and 100 in my 2001 reprint. )
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline silvery

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,779
  • information Crown Copyright, from www.nation
    • View Profile
Re: Unusual death in Liverpool
« Reply #2 on: Monday 21 April 08 18:02 BST (UK) »
Now isn't that intriguing  :) as you say.

I bet they could have found cause of death today.  That would be interesting to know. It couldn't be suicide if the ends were hammered shut from outside. Poison maybe, considering the pillow.  Oooh what a mystery.


"This information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk"

Online CaroleW

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 73,233
  • Barney 1993-2004
    • View Profile
Re: Unusual death in Liverpool
« Reply #3 on: Monday 21 April 08 18:05 BST (UK) »
Hi Annie

I can feel my claustrophobia coming on!!  I reckon this is an ideal case for the "Waking the Dead" team

How on earth could the investigators think it may have been suicide if the ends of the cylinder were hammered shut from the outside?  Why on earth would a businessman sleep inside a cylinder - answers to Boyd & his team on the cold case squad

This is the 1881 census for 29 Clifton Rd

Thomas C Williams 45 b Liverpool oil & paint merchant
Elizabeth 37 b Castleton IOM
Thomas C son 23 b Liverpool commercial traveller
Fanny J Wood 24 visitor b Castelton IOM

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)


Offline liverpool annie

  • Deceased † Rest In Peace
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ********
  • Posts: 13,434
  • Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Unusual death in Liverpool
« Reply #4 on: Monday 21 April 08 18:11 BST (UK) »


I'm glad I'm not the only one who likes this stuff !!  :D ....... I'm always interested in Liverpool murders !!  ::) ::) ::) ( especially the Wallace murder !! )

But I hadn't heard this one before ...... just thought maybe somebody knew a little more about it !!

Interesting ........ there's even an IOM connection in this one too !!  :) :)

Annie  :)
Cooper : Muels : Howarth : Every : Price : King

http://web.archive.org/web/20130407030702/http://www.freewebs.com/liverpoolannie

http://web.archive.org/web/20130407191115/http://manchestersoldiers.webs.com

http://web.archive.org/web/20130807102055/http://www.powv.webs.com/
Be who you are and say what you feel -  because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind ! Dr. Seuss

Erect no gravestone .... let the Rose every year bloom for his sake ! Rilke Sonnets to Orpheus, I

Offline ShaunJ

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 24,902
    • View Profile
Re: Unusual death in Liverpool
« Reply #5 on: Monday 21 April 08 18:35 BST (UK) »
Liverpool Mercury, Monday September 10, 1883

"Thomas Cregeen Williams lately of 29 Cambridge Road Seaforth, but now of Woodville House, Abbotsford Road, Blundellsands, and carrying on business at 5 Leeds Street. Liverpool as a paint manufacturer; first meeting of creditors at the offices of Mr WH Harris, 4 Harrington Street, Liverpool" ( to be held September 10 1883 at 3)
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline liverpool annie

  • Deceased † Rest In Peace
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ********
  • Posts: 13,434
  • Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Unusual death in Liverpool
« Reply #6 on: Monday 21 April 08 18:57 BST (UK) »


That was 2 years before they think he died ..... the situation must have got much worse !!  :-\
Cooper : Muels : Howarth : Every : Price : King

http://web.archive.org/web/20130407030702/http://www.freewebs.com/liverpoolannie

http://web.archive.org/web/20130407191115/http://manchestersoldiers.webs.com

http://web.archive.org/web/20130807102055/http://www.powv.webs.com/
Be who you are and say what you feel -  because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind ! Dr. Seuss

Erect no gravestone .... let the Rose every year bloom for his sake ! Rilke Sonnets to Orpheus, I

Offline ShaunJ

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 24,902
    • View Profile
Re: Unusual death in Liverpool
« Reply #7 on: Monday 21 April 08 20:13 BST (UK) »
The announcements of creditors meetings in the Gazette go on until 5th September 1885 - a couple of months after the supposed date of death.
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline liverpool annie

  • Deceased † Rest In Peace
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ********
  • Posts: 13,434
  • Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Unusual death in Liverpool
« Reply #8 on: Monday 21 April 08 20:20 BST (UK) »


That's 'cos they didn't know he was dead !!

wonder if he was reported missing ?? if there was any searches made or anything ? ... they didn't have a body ... so what did they do I wonder ? ... just wait for the 7 years ??


Cooper : Muels : Howarth : Every : Price : King

http://web.archive.org/web/20130407030702/http://www.freewebs.com/liverpoolannie

http://web.archive.org/web/20130407191115/http://manchestersoldiers.webs.com

http://web.archive.org/web/20130807102055/http://www.powv.webs.com/
Be who you are and say what you feel -  because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind ! Dr. Seuss

Erect no gravestone .... let the Rose every year bloom for his sake ! Rilke Sonnets to Orpheus, I