Author Topic: A Sergeants Baton  (Read 4729 times)

Offline Cas (stallc)

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A Sergeants Baton
« on: Wednesday 23 April 08 00:56 BST (UK) »
Hi All...am well lucky with this man, and chuffed to bits again, wanted to share as well  ;D

Have recently been contacted by a cousin with news of a baton that belonged to my (our) x3 Grandfather.  Full story for those that are interested here.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,168790.0.html

The baton is appox 29 inches brass or tarnished silver? at the head and point/ tip  - old leather over the shaft of the wood stick itself. (have 3 pics)

The engravings read...
 
R GIBBONS  HM 29 REG  engraved in a circle on the head around a flower design
ENGAGED AT FEROZESHAH 21 & 22 DEC 45
PASSAGE CHENAB 23 DEC 48
CHILLIANWALLAH 13 JAN 49
GOOJERAT 21 FEB 49
Wound at Ferozes
 
ON BOTTOM OF STICK  - a list of places where he was stationed - appear to be
in three sections  reading round
 
QUARTERED  AT    WOOLWICH - ALLAHABAD -   RANGOON
GHAZZEPORE -   CALCUTTA
EDINBURGH -    MEERUT -   CHATHAM
GLASGOW  -   KUSSOWLIE -   NOTTINGHAM
BELFAST -   FEROZEPORE
WEEDON -   WUZERABAD   EXETER
TILLURYTI -?   ADERUT?   PLYMOUTH
CHINSURAH -   DINAPORE
GHAZZERLORE -   VODEMEIN?   THEYATTON ??

Know he was quarted 1839 at Woolwich from service record, not on UK 1841/1851...married in Chatham Kent 1859, and first 2 daughters were born Plymouth.  I have a short list of places the 29th were stationed so sorry for any mispellings of oversea place names, difficult on how they read, but any imput appreciated
 
Richard Gibbons  possibly engraved the names himself or got someone in the Reg to do it as he travelled   There appear to be three main groups  His early UK days.  His India days and then his time back in UK.  That is what I am supposing?
 
We are both interested in reuniting the baton with the medals and photo in the Regimental museum at some point.

What I would like to know is the history, if anyone has any knowledge or imput...was it commonplace to have such a baton, does anyone know of others that exist, or was this something my grandfather just had as a momento of his army days, was this common and issued by the army, and he engraved it etc?

Any knowledge, advise or imput appreciated

Cas  :)

Census information is Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Gibbons, Mordecai/Mort, Squire, Thomas, David/Davies, Joseph, Bowen, Lewis, Rees, Williams, Jones, Llewellyn, Morgan - Glam
Lewis - Ystradgynlias Breckonshire
Gibbons, Timbrell, Beale, Ludlow - Glos/Wilts
Davies, Roderick - Myddfai Carms
Lloyd, Jones - Denbigh/Salop
Shoemac, Squire, Keirle, Small - Somerset
Berry, Baggot, Lee, Clayton - Lancs
Baggot, Hurley, Keaveny, Shiel, Flynn - Ireland
Yelland, Bray, Trethewey  - Cornwall

Offline scrimnet

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Re: A Sergeants Baton
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 23 April 08 07:47 BST (UK) »
Hello cas

Well that is a marvelous thing to have!

Most photographs up to the end of WW2 will have chaps with one of these "walking out sticks". They are there to add a bit of swank to the individual...An affectation...

This may have been engraved as he went which I suspect, or was done as a presentation piece from the Sgts mess.

Actually the term "baton" is only properly applied to a Field Marshall's Baton !!

I bet the museum would love it to go with the medals!
One more charge and then be dumb,
            When the forts of Folly fall,
        May the victors when they come
            Find my body near the wall.

Offline Cas (stallc)

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Re: A Sergeants Baton
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 23 April 08 08:06 BST (UK) »
Hi scrimnet

Great stuff, and I agree marvelous  ;D

Thanks for feedback....I did not think it would be called a 'stick'....I've  given him a bit more swank than his rank then lol.  Should I change the title? 

Cas
Census information is Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Gibbons, Mordecai/Mort, Squire, Thomas, David/Davies, Joseph, Bowen, Lewis, Rees, Williams, Jones, Llewellyn, Morgan - Glam
Lewis - Ystradgynlias Breckonshire
Gibbons, Timbrell, Beale, Ludlow - Glos/Wilts
Davies, Roderick - Myddfai Carms
Lloyd, Jones - Denbigh/Salop
Shoemac, Squire, Keirle, Small - Somerset
Berry, Baggot, Lee, Clayton - Lancs
Baggot, Hurley, Keaveny, Shiel, Flynn - Ireland
Yelland, Bray, Trethewey  - Cornwall


Offline scrimnet

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Re: A Sergeants Baton
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 23 April 08 19:13 BST (UK) »
No thats fine, educate and entertain the masses!  ;D ;D ;D
One more charge and then be dumb,
            When the forts of Folly fall,
        May the victors when they come
            Find my body near the wall.

Offline Wendi

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Re: A Sergeants Baton
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 24 April 08 08:59 BST (UK) »
Great research Cas !

Just a little more to educate the masses !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swagger_stick

Wendi  :)

"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it!  No matter if I have said it,
unless it agrees with your own reason and with your own common sense" ~ Buddha

SCOTT ~ Monmouthshire & Glamorgan
BUCKLEY ~ Cork & Manchester
FRANKLIN ~ Clerkenwell, London
BRADY ~ Kildare & Manchester
DERICK ~ France
FRIEND ~ Kent & Portsmouth
TYLDESLEY ~ Lancashire
______________________________________
Census information posted here is Crown Copyright from The National Archives

Offline Cas (stallc)

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Re: A Sergeants Baton
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 24 April 08 10:18 BST (UK) »
Thanks Wendi spot on!   :)

Will send the link to my cousin as he is writing a piece on Richard's military history.

Looking at the pics it does now look more like a 'stick' with the info from yourself and scrimnet

Cheers both

Cas
Census information is Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Gibbons, Mordecai/Mort, Squire, Thomas, David/Davies, Joseph, Bowen, Lewis, Rees, Williams, Jones, Llewellyn, Morgan - Glam
Lewis - Ystradgynlias Breckonshire
Gibbons, Timbrell, Beale, Ludlow - Glos/Wilts
Davies, Roderick - Myddfai Carms
Lloyd, Jones - Denbigh/Salop
Shoemac, Squire, Keirle, Small - Somerset
Berry, Baggot, Lee, Clayton - Lancs
Baggot, Hurley, Keaveny, Shiel, Flynn - Ireland
Yelland, Bray, Trethewey  - Cornwall

Offline scrimnet

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Re: A Sergeants Baton
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 24 April 08 19:04 BST (UK) »
Ummm Wikipedia......Never trust a "fact" on there until it can be verified at least x2 :(

Not technically correct on the British Army thing...Well hardly correct at all...

Officers canes (proper title) and the like are not rattan...they are cane...Clue is in the name... ::) ::)

Officers never had silver topped ones, and certainly never with a Regt crest! These were reserved for the Other Ranks as Cas quite rightly pointed out, those with more "swank than rank"!  8)

If you watch "Zulu" the Colour Sgt carries a silver topped one...

One cannot equate a Pace Stick with Walking out sticks and officer's canes...they are both "ceremonial" whilst the Pace Stick has a purpose ...to measure the distance between each step... ::)

Oh and Gieves and Hawkes have severely cut back on military kit...

And for heavens sake Wiki..what are "militaries"??? The contributor is writing from his posterior opening...  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

Sorry Wendi...didn't mean to diss your post... :-*
One more charge and then be dumb,
            When the forts of Folly fall,
        May the victors when they come
            Find my body near the wall.

Offline scrimnet

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Re: A Sergeants Baton
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 24 April 08 19:14 BST (UK) »
Grrrrrrrr!!!!!

Even the link from Wikigotitallwrongedia links to an Australian site written by an American spouting more garbage!

The only correct items (ish) are about Pace Sticks...


Picture of three officers "all carrying swagger sticks" Pish, tish and more TOSH!!!

They have Riding Crops...DERRRR!!!


I despair..... :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
One more charge and then be dumb,
            When the forts of Folly fall,
        May the victors when they come
            Find my body near the wall.

Offline Wendi

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Re: A Sergeants Baton
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 24 April 08 20:22 BST (UK) »
Hi Scrim et al !!

Anyone reading Wiki surely understands the concept....sorry if I lead anyone astray.

Officers canes (proper title) and the like are not rattan...they are cane...Clue is in the name... ::) ::
 

Then made of what ???

Oh how I love these subjects  ;D

How would one distinguish between a Swagger, Officers Cane and a Pace Stick ? Please ?

Wendi
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it!  No matter if I have said it,
unless it agrees with your own reason and with your own common sense" ~ Buddha

SCOTT ~ Monmouthshire & Glamorgan
BUCKLEY ~ Cork & Manchester
FRANKLIN ~ Clerkenwell, London
BRADY ~ Kildare & Manchester
DERICK ~ France
FRIEND ~ Kent & Portsmouth
TYLDESLEY ~ Lancashire
______________________________________
Census information posted here is Crown Copyright from The National Archives