Parish Registers - SCOTT - Baptism

[JAP]

Hi again melonsmum,

Here's a (very unreliable) straw at which to clutch ...

Mary ANDERSON, likely mother of Jane BURNS, shows on censuses as born in Yarrow, Selkirkshire ca 1820.

There's an LDS submission for a Mary ANDERSON, bap 7 Apr 1819, Yarrow Selkirkshire - parents John ANDERSON & Mary BEATTIE ...

JAP

[melonsmum]

Thanks very much Jap.

I have that information which is why I'm pinning my hopes on the fact that this Thomas is the right one.  I just need the absolute proof that this is my man!  In view of the fact that Thomas's mothers maiden name is Burns, it could be that his middle name is Burns.  I hope not though!

I have to say, you are all very prompt, friendly and helpful on this Forum, it is much appreciated.

Melonsmum

[JAP]

Thanks very much Jap.

I have that information ...
Melonsmum

Aargh 
It's always a good idea (I think, anyway) if persons posting requests mention the information they already have (e.g. apparently you already had all the census information which has been looked up and posted on this thread, and also had relevant info from the IGI which has also been looked up and posted).   And also a good idea to mention why you have drawn certain likely conclusions.  This helps to avoid duplication of effort by helpful RootsChatters 

Good luck,

JAP   

[MonicaL]

I have to admit a nagging doubt Melonsmum (hope I'm wrong though!) that this is the Thomas BEATTIE Scott that you are looking for  With Scottish naming pattern, everything would point to the 'B' that shows in the 1871 census entry for the family as standing for BURNS. Specially with the likely name for Jane Burns father being Thomas Burns. There are no birth registrations as you know for a Thomas Beattie Scott apart from the one that you are aware of in Roxburghshire. This is not uncommon. Many children were given middle names that at the time were not included in their birth registration.

We can help you more to look for possibilities if we had some additional info on Thomas, based on questions, some already asked:

1. You have his marriage in Ireland (?) in 1892. I believe like the English marriage certs. only father's details were included. Did father Thomas, manager, show as alive or deceased at the time of his marriage? Were there any relevant witnesses that could connect to his side of the family?
2. What ages (i.e. birth year) do you have for Thomas from his marriage cert and the two Irish censuses?
3. What was his occupation at the time of the marriage and in later years?
4. Wondering if he used any naming pattern for the names of his children. Do you have a relatively complete list of his children in the order that they were born, with any middle names if used. Do you have his wife's parents' names as well?
5. Have you tried trying to track the Thomas B Scott (the one born in Peebleshire) through the later censuses to see whether he still shows in Scotland?
6. Always the possibility that Thomas's family all moved to Ireland sometime after he was born. Have you tried looking for Thomas Snr. there?

Monica 

[melonsmum]

Hi Monica & Jap,

Thanks for your replies.  I will list out what I know about my Thomas Beattie Scott.

Thomas Beattie Scott married Elizabeth Gordon on 9th April 1892 in Belfast.

Both Thomas & Elizabeth's ages were given as 'Full Age'.

Thomas's occupation was 'Clerk' and Elizabeths was 'Teacher'.

Thomas's Father was, 'Thomas Scott. Manager' and Elizabeths was 'David Gordon, Coachman'.

The witnesses were John Collins and Margaret Gordon.  (I have no idea who John Collins was).  Margaret was Elizabeths sister.

It was not mentioned whether or not either father was deceased but I have discovered that often it doesn't mention that fact whenever the father is indeed deceased.

On the 1901 Census, Elizabeth's age was 31 and Thomas's was 34.

On the 1911 Census, Elizabeth's age was 41 and Thomas's was 44.

On the 1901 Census Thomas's occupation was 'Clerk, Linen Business' and on the 1911 Census it was, 'Commercial Clerk, Linen Business'.

I have followed him through the street directories and from 1921 onwards his occupation was 'Foreign Correspondent'.  Weirdly, on the burial Register his occupation was 'Compositor'.  I can only assume that after his retirement he did a bit of part-time work.  No one in the family knows anything about him having been a compositor.  It could, of course, be a mistake.

Elizabeth was born on 24.09.1868 and died on 27.09.1944 aged 75.

Thomas died on 02.10.1951 aged 85.

Thomas age at death doesn't fit with his age on the census'.  Of course, this is not an unusual occurance.

Thomas & Elizabeths Children were:-

Thomas Gordon
Herbert David
Lucinda Florence
Robert James
Eileen Ethel
Elizabeth Maud
Amelia Evaline

It would seem that a lot of the names were fashionable at the time and only 2 appear in Elizabeths family (her mother & fathers, David & Lucinda).

Unfortunately I don't have enough information about Thomas's father to locate him in Ireland.

I did track Thomas through the Scottish census and put the information in 'my shoebox' on Ancestry.  As I am no longer a member, I cannot view them, so I can't honestly remember whether I found him or not.  (It was a long time ago that I looked at this side of my family).

Maybe with your powers of deduction you may be able to 'see' something that I haven't!

Thanks

Melonsmum

[MonicaL]

  This 1901 Census entry is the Thomas, son of Thomas and Jane Burns:

Thomas Scott 34, Railway Engine Driver, b. Traquair, Peebleshire
Gertrude Scott 34, b. England
Robert Scott 8, b. Carstairs, Lanarkshire
Gertrude Scott 7, b. Edinburgh
James Scott 4, b. Edinburgh

Address: 11 Stewart Ter, Edinburgh

Thomas and Gertrude married in Edinburgh 1891.

Monica

[MonicaL]

The only other possibility that I am seeing at present on the Scottish censuses is this one in 1881:

Thomas Scott 16, lodger, clerk's apprentice, b. Liverpool
Liza M Gardiner 53, mangle keeper, b. Dundee
William Gardiner 29, calender worker, b. Dundee
Lindsey Gardiner 17, winder, b. Dundee

Address: 26 Dudhope St, Dundee Angus

I think this Thomas might be the same one as this one in 1871:

Elizabeth Scott 61, b. Ireland
Thomas Scott    24, power loom tenter, b. Greenock
Elizabeth Scott 20, saleswoman, b. Greenock
Thomas Scott 5, b. Liverpool
John McLaren    37, boarder, Student Of Urte (?spl) b. Glasgow
George Richardson 13, boarder, millworker, b. Manchester

Address: 58 Cresent Lane, Dundee

Thomas above is showing on the index as son to Elizabeth head. At age 61 unlikely so he is either g/son or son to Thomas or Elizabeth in the household. Would be worthwhile looking at the original to see how his relationship in the household has actually been written down.

I think this is the main family in 1851 back at Greenock:

James Scott 40, weaver, b. Ireland
Elizabeth Scott 38, b. Ireland
Mary Jane Scott 15, cotton mill girl, b. Domdel, Forfarshire
James Scott 13, rope work boy, b. Domdel, Forfarshire
Robert Scott    11, b. Domdel, Forfarshire
Stewart Scott    8, b. Greenock
Thomas E Scott    5, b. Greenock
William D Scott 3, b. Greenock
Elizabeth Scott 1, b. Greenock
William Young 36, lodger, b. Ireland
May Young 12, lodger, b. Greenock
Jane Young 10, lodger, b. Greenock
Archibald McKendrick 36, lodger, b. Ireland

Address: 52 Roxburgh Street, Greenock West

I cannot easily see the Thomas b. 1866 in Liverpool in the later censuses. There is only one Thomas showing b. England in his age range and he shows up to 1901 with mother.

Struggling to see anything else now Melonsmum.....

Regards.

Monica 

[melonsmum]

Thanks for that Monica.  Looks like I'm back to square one!

He must be somewhere.  I have checked all the usual sources here but to no avail.

There is another possiblity in the Govan area of Lanarkshire.  There is no image available on Scotlands People for the Thomas Scott birth on that one so I would have to send off for it.  This Thomas Scott was the child of Thomas Scott & Agnes Norval, who died 4 days after the birth of Thomas.  

I have seen an oil painting of my GGG Grandfather 1840c.  There was one of his wife as well but that was damaged years ago and was disposed off, unfortunately.  Who would have had a portrait painted in those days?  The Grandfather of the above Thomas was a Minister so perhaps it was feasible that he would have had one done.

The Family in the Govan area I followed to the 1881 census but couldn't find the Thomas after that.  I know that I am clutching at straws here but nothing ventured, nothing gained.

I am determined to trace this branch.  This was my Fathers side, and where I first started but came up against so many 'brick walls' that I kept putting it on hold.

Do you have any ideas or advice on this one?

Thanks so much for your help and interest to date, I really appreciate it.

Melonsmum

[melonsmum]

Hi Monica,

Our posts must have crossed paths in the 'ethers'.

That is very interesting, especially the Ireland connection.  The thing that really throws me is the Oil painting.  I'm sure that not everyone could have afforded to have one done in that era which is why I have discounted some families and latched on to others.

Unfortunately I have to go to work right now and won't be home until later tonight.  (the PRONI is open to 8.45pm on a Thursday) so thats where I will be!

I will have a good look at what you sent me later.

Thanks again Monica,

Melonsmum