Sadler at Watlington?

[patannk]

In 1837, William and Patience Sadler c. a dau, Roseanna at Stokenchurch.
Another daughter, Sarah (b. abt 1835) is listed in 1851 census.

Are there any Sadler marriages listed for William at Watlington?
He says he comes from Turville, in 1851, but there is no marriage rec for him there.

More c. recs are listed at Stokenchurch, for children of William Sadler and a new wife, Ann?
PRs say a Patience died in 1842, but Ann is already with William in 1841?
 
So I don't really know when or where these 2 marriages took place...

[Pennie]

No record of William and Patience's marriage on the OFHS's Oxfordshire Marriage Index (1538-1837).

The parishes that you mention - Watlington, Turville and Stokenchurch - are all close to the county boundary.  Perhaps Patience came from "over the border" and the marriage took place in her home parish (which was very common)?

Pennie

[patannk]

Thanks for checking.
Sadly, I know nothing more about Patience and very little more about Ann.

In 1841, both Ann and William are listed as not born in county, but in 1851, Ann says she is from Stokenchurch? I couldn't see them in 1861 etc.
Maybe if I follow the children's lives, I will learn something more......

[jillruss]

Not sure who you've got on the 1841 census - are William & Ann living with Rose Anna?

It's just that I'm wondering if the William with Ann is a completely different person to the William with Patience. 

In the Stokenchurch PRs, Wm & Patience have Rose Anna in 1837  - Wm is a chairmaker. Then in 1844 there's a baptism for Georgiana d/o William & blank (obviously either illegible or not entered by the clerk) but Wm is still described as a chairmaker. In between these two dates - in 1842 - as you say, there is a burial for Patience, age 30. Incidentally, I don't see a baptism for Sarah around 1835.

Children of Wm & Ann start in 1846, but now Wm is described as a labourer - as he is with all their children up to 1852. I suppose it's not impossible that Wm gave up making chairs and became a labourer, but I wouldn't have thought so - not willingly anyway!

Of course, if you have Wm & Ann on the 1841 census living with Rose Anna & Georgiana, ignore all of the above!! 

Jill

[patannk]

Oops! No Sarah b. abt 1835... she was Mary!
 

In 1841, we have William (30) a chairmaker and Ann (30).
There are 2 children: Roseanna (4) and Thomas (1).

By 1851, we have William and Ann and 8 children....

William   Sadler   Head Mar 42 Chair Matter b Turville
Ann   Sadler   Wife Mar 26 Lace Maker   b Stokenchurch
Mary   Sadler   Dau   Unm 16 Lace Maker b Turville
Roseanna Sadler   Dau 12   Lace Maker b S
Thomas   Sadler   Son 10   Chair Matter b S
Eli   Sadler   Son 7 b S
Georgina   Sadler   Dau 6 b Lewknor
Elizabeth   Sadler   Dau 5 b S
John   Sadler   Son 3 b S
James   Sadler   Son 3m b S.

It is possible that Ann might have had brought a child with her, when she married William?
Or maybe as Patience's first child, she went home to mum at Turville, for the birth? That seems to happen quite a lot?
Of course, William and Patience could have started their married life at Turville and then moved to Stokenchurch, by 1837...
 

[allisont]

1861 Turville, RG8/858 folio136 page 10
William transcribed as age 32 but looks like 52 to me. Looking at Ann's ages on the censuses, is it possible there were 2 of them?

[jillruss]

Crikey - if there were 2 Anns and one Patience - that's 3 marriages we can't find!! 

I've double checked the Stokenchurch baptisms - Georgiana was definetly baptised there - not Lewknor - in 1844.

from the censuses, the William with Ann is obviously the same one as was with Patience, as he's consistently described as a chairmaker. I wonder why all the baptisms for the children in Stokenchurch after 1844 describe him as a labourer?

The other children from Stokenchurch are:
1846 Elizabeth
1848 John
1850 jane
1851 James Philip

No Thomas or Eli - and it looks as if Jane may have died as a baby as she's not on the 1851 census.

It looks as if this family moved about a bit, doesn't it? 

Jill

[allisont]

On FreeBMD Dec 1846 & Sep 1853 Wycombe district there is a William Sadler with Anns in the list of possible spouse...........

[patannk]

Well spotted, with the 1861 census!
I agree that William is 52. The 3s and 5s in the censuses often give pause for thought?

I had seen the 2 marriages listed on FreeBMD, but knew that the 1846 record was not my William, as he is also to be found at Stokenchurch in 1851 and I found his marriage to Esther Sanders on 21 Nov 1846, at Radnage.

The 1853 record, I only glanced at, because I thought it was too late, but now I think it must be our missing Ann!
 
I looked in my own Stokenchurch PR Index and saw...... 
William Sadler (wid) 37yrs old, m. Ann Parker 25yrs old, on 23 Jul 1853.
William is listed as the son of William and Ann as the dau of Phillip.

Now that could explain why the child c. in 1851 was named John Phillip?
But I am still very puzzled about who was living with William in 1841!
Was that actually Patience, but she called herself Ann... because Patience only died in 1842?
Or was that Ann Parker, but they listed her as Sadler?
And worst of all...... who did all those children belong to and where were they born?
 

I don't see Ann Parker at Stokenchurch in 1841...
I see Philip and Sarah Parker, with 4 children, but no Ann?
If she was only 25 in 1853, when she married, that would make her about 13 in 1841?
Maybe she was helping to care for the children, but then, where was the as yet, undead Patience.......?