Author Topic: David Balharry - Scotland to Chile  (Read 17459 times)

Offline Lass

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Re: David Balharry - Scotland to Chile
« Reply #9 on: Friday 09 May 08 11:49 BST (UK) »
Ambly, I don't know what to say, you're a marvel!!  ;D

I didn't mean to suggest in my earlier post that David's sister was necessarily younger than he.  My reference to the sister being a couple of years younger was particular to David 1829 and I have to admit that it didn't sit well with me either that they'd both be such little uns when they emigrated.   I have yet to hear back from my cousins who are checking out information over in Chile - the sister married the then French consul and returned to France with him, so that should be traceable relatively easily from the Chilean end.  I suspect that when we find her much will fall into place........ fingers crossed!

I think the information you've found Ambly has raised more questions than it answers, especially after looking at the dates etc give on the death certificate but it's another very welcome piece of the puzzle!!

Death Registration - Disctrict of Montrose, County of Forfar

Benjamin Franklin Balharry (illegible)  (Single)   (From Forfar)

Died 31st May 1870 at Lunatic Asylum, Sunnyside, Parish of Montrose

Male

Age 21 years

Parents:  David Balharry and Margaret Jaffrey

No profession of David Balharry noted
[which I find odd]

Informant: Thomas Mowatt (Attendant)  [asylum staff presumably]


Now, David and Margaret Jaffrey married in 1833 in Dundee and on looking at this originally, it did occur to me that they'd been married a hell of a long time before having Benjamin, however I figured there were probably children in between that I couldn't trace.  Perhaps a trip abroad had something to do with it.......

Try as I might, I cannot read the word inserted directly below Benjamin's full name where the occupation would normally be placed, although my best guess would be 'Clish'.

Do you think it's possible that his place of lodging on the 1861 census is due to the fact that he was with a teacher of languages?  His first language may not have been english after all.......

JAP, thanks for your help, you're asking all the right questions it would appear!!  And I'll certainly go about cross referencing in the other forums too!  All help is more than welcome  ;D

Time to hit the census/IGI/everthing else I can find!! Oh it's just as well I'm quiet at work just now  ;)

Lass x

Offline JAP

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Re: David Balharry - Scotland to Chile
« Reply #10 on: Friday 09 May 08 15:51 BST (UK) »
Hi Lass and AMBLY - and anyone else who has followed this thread!

Can't agree more Lass!  AMBLY is certainly a marvel

But Lass, your find of the death of Benjamin Franklin was the pointer.  Wish we could find David & Margaret on the 1841 - though perhaps they'd already gone to Chile.  Of course the possible variant spellings of the surname do pose a problem (I, as a person who has found nearly 100 variants of a particular Scottish surname, say this feelingly ...).

What a fascinating multicultural thread this is!

Lass, after seeing AMBLY's find, I assumed that Benjamin Franklin had been sent to Scotland to study English (etc) - and interesting that this was in Angus (perhaps there were relatives nearby?).  Mr BEAUMONT (b Ayrshire) appears later as a teacher of English & Mathematics, and subsequently as Head Master of a Public School in Aberdeenshire.

Difficult to know what age Benjamin Franklin actually was - the actual 1861 census image (from SP) might help?  I guess there's no reason why the death informant would have known what Benjamin's father's profession was ...

Lass, perhaps you could post the section of the dc with the occupation which you are having difficulty reading ...

Anyway, let's hope your Chilean cousins are now able to find more details about the family in the Chilean records.

Again looking forward to the next instalment.

JAP


Offline Lass

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Re: David Balharry - Scotland to Chile
« Reply #11 on: Friday 09 May 08 22:15 BST (UK) »
Hi again JAP, Ambly and anyone else intrigued with my fascinating 'brick walls'!

JAP, I've checked SP for the actual 1861 census image and it does indeed show Benjamin as being 12 years old.

There were certainly plenty of relatives in Angus for Benjamin Franklin to rely on, it's where we all hail from, even I was born there in 1969, so many of us didn't move very far from our origins!!  I'm not long home so planning to sit here and see what I can find on David and Margaret Jaffrey, there must be something out there, surely they would have returned with their son and not left him to fend for himself in a foreign land with family he didn't know........

Friday night is my usual time for chatting with my Chilean cousins so I'm hoping we'll have some news on the sister later on, I'll be sure to keep you updated with anything I find  ;)

In the meantime, here's that section of the dc that I can't decipher - I'm beginning to think I've been looking at it too long and I'm sure that you'll probably take one glance and figure it out!

Crown Copyright Image

Offline AMBLY

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Re: David Balharry - Scotland to Chile
« Reply #12 on: Friday 09 May 08 22:53 BST (UK) »
Hi Lass
 ;D If JAP were here right now,  no doubt we'd be saying in unison - Benjamin's occupation was "Clerk". This pleases me, as I was wondering if he was sadly, congenitally hadicapped (which could have been a reason for being sent "Home")  ie - one of those poor people labelled as "imbecile" on the Census. Seems not, but a look at the original 1861 Census may at least dispel that.

It was relatively common for ex-pat families to send their offspring (from around 10 onwards) to schools back home, especially boys. The wealthier the family, the more remote their location (ie the colonoies) the more probable that might happen. It would be to get them well educated for a Profession, to brush up their "native" culture, etc.  And that's is a point - ther is every possibility it was the senior David who was BORN in Scotland, ended up in Chile. and had most of (if not all)  his children born there. But all thru his life the younger David, may have considered himself "from" Scotland.

This is a facinating thread! If you look at my Avatar  - tell your Chilean cousins that a lassie from Islas Malvinas (Falklands)  is trying to help you out :-)  Just out of interest, this schooling of the colony children, continued well on :  when I was 9 in the Falklands in the 1960's, I and my parents were offered the chance to have me sent, at that tender age,  to either Uruguay or England for an 'advanced' education! that I would not get at home I chose not to go, at least I had the choice! In the end of the day, though I guess it was (is)  boarding school  type of thing. 

Looking forward to more, too, especially about the sister and her Fremch Comsul husband! ;D

Cheers
AMBLY
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)


Offline Lass

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Re: David Balharry - Scotland to Chile
« Reply #13 on: Friday 09 May 08 23:23 BST (UK) »
Welcome back with your wonderful knowledge AMBLY!  ;D

Clerk!! Of course  ::)  Seems so obvious now ;)  There's nothing special noted on the original 1861 census document, so it must be assumed he was capable of work at least until he entered the asylum.

I'll be glad to let my cousins know about the the fantastic help I'm getting from the Islas Malvinas!  I really am so grateful for the help you've me given so far, and for the wealth of extra information you have been giving me, it's almost like being back at school, but so much more interesting  ;D 

I'm not going to apologise for getting you hooked, I'm just glad you find this as fascinating as I do (now you can see why I've dropped every other ancestor till I get to the bottom of this!!) - this is what I love about researching the family tree - I've found cousins I didn't know existed, in far flung areas of the world, and in finding out more about them get to work on an intriguing puzzle and learn so much from interesting folks like you and JAP  ;D

*sigh*


Lass x

Offline JAP

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Re: David Balharry - Scotland to Chile
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 10 May 08 04:14 BST (UK) »
There are nice images and a history of the Montrose Lunatic Asylum, Infirmary & Dispensary (established 1781 and now Sunnyside Royal Hospital) at:
http://www.dundee.ac.uk/museum/medical/sunnydays.htm

JAP

Offline AMBLY

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Re: David Balharry - Scotland to Chile
« Reply #15 on: Sunday 11 May 08 00:00 BST (UK) »
Hi Lass and JAP

I'm thinking there is a strong liklihood that Adam BALHARY age 7 from the  1841, with Jean JAFFREY age 30 is connected? They were at Step Row in Dundee in 1841, both listed as born Angus.

The IGI has just one Jean (Janet) JAFFREY born abt 1811 in Angus.
These are the parents listed and all the children who are on the IGI:
Father: Thomas JAFFREY
Mother: Isobel BRUCE
Children - all christened Newtyle , Angus
James JAFREY chr 15 May 1799
Alexander JAFFREY chr 15 Jun 1800
Margaret JAFFREY chr 5 Sep 1802
Jean JAFFREY chr 5 Apr 1807

It's pretty certain, the IGI family is the one from which the Census Jean  springs from.........as follows
http://www.fdca.org.uk/howff.htm
The HOWFF cemetery Dundee database

Has the following entry:
#419 - Jean JAFFRAY age 36, born Newtyle
Buried 16 Jul 1845
Died of Consumption
Her last address was: Step Row, Perth Road
Daughter of the late Thomas JAFFREY, Farmer

The indications are that Jean died unmarried (else the burial record may have been expected to say she was a widow of etc). If this is on the right track - Adam might possibly be Jean's nephew? And Jean's sister Margaret could be the one who married David BALHARRY? And  possibly making Adam their firstborn....but not finding anything on him at all apart from this one Census entry.

If the above Margaret JAFFREY is 'our one, then she would have been at least 31 when she married David BALHARRY......

Lass, what part of Chile do you have the family recorded in at the earliest time? Do you know anything about where the railway was that David was working on?

cheers
AMBLY
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)

Offline Lass

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Re: David Balharry - Scotland to Chile
« Reply #16 on: Sunday 11 May 08 01:11 BST (UK) »
Good morning AMBLY  ;)

I had the feeling Jean and Adam must have been related somehow, too much of a coincidence I guess, but you certainly have been busy!!!  Well done AMBLY, once again you've come up trumps!!!  ;D

Newtyle was a definite favourite with the Balharry family, and the immediate surrounding area, so it's no surprise to find that these connected Jaffreys come from there too.

I've spent most of today searching census under variations of spelling of Balharry that I haven't tried before - had some success but not the ones I was looking for!  I wonder about Adam being with, it would appear, his aunt.  Given that I can find absolutely no trace of David Balharry and wife Margaret anywhere on any census, do you agree that this would suggest they'd already left the country?  If Benjamin Franklin was born in 1849 in Chile, it would seem that between Adam's birth in c.1834 and the census of 1841, they may have already emigrated.  If the birth date for Margaret according to the IGI record is correct (and I'll check SP just to make sure), then this would make her 47 when Benjamin Franklin was born - this helps a bit because I always presumed 'our' David would be younger than is now apparent.  I've also been trawling the emigration records but rather than going in with variations on the surname spelling, I'm using wildcards, so it's slow going.

I have a birth cert for David Balharry, son of David Balharry and May Fleeming, born in Longforgan in 1806 - I'm off to see what more I can find on this particular David ............

My cousins tell me that David and his sister lived in Burdeos - I have a suspicion that this is incorrect and that she is confused with Burdeos, France, where the sister later ended up with her French husband as I have tried to google Burdeos, Chile and am getting nothing except a reference to wine! Perhaps it's known as a region where they grow the wine....  The living grandson tells that David went to work on the construction of part of the Chilean railway network in the north of Chile (that is the internal railway line, not the Chile-Bolivia line for example) and that the work on the line was completed in 1865.  Family legend on the Scottish side initially believed David to have been a direct relative to me, born in 1840 but I have since discounted this particular ancestor as other records contradict this. But, interestingly, the grandson is suggesting that the date of birth would fit with his understanding of David being very young when he 'arrived' in Chile. 

They are certainly still working on the premise that David was born here, but I agree with the idea, from the knowlege you've gleaned so far, that this seems unlikely and that it was actually his father who arrived first.

All I have from the cousins on the elusive sister is that she married the French consul in Concepcion.

Another interesting snippet I've just connected after reviewing my online conversation with my cousin: 'their' David, who married Benigna Nunez de la Vega had 7 children, one of whom was named Benjamin - I know that was a popular name in Chile, but for me it harks back to Benjamin Franklin  :)

I'm sorry folks, I've just realised I'm rambling again, I seem to be incapable of making a short post!!

Thank you again AMBLY, it's so wonderful to be in touch with you as you obviously know from experience where to look next!!  I haven't spoken to my cousin this weekend, so fingers crossed I'll maybe catch up with her tonight.....





Offline AMBLY

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Re: David Balharry - Scotland to Chile
« Reply #17 on: Sunday 11 May 08 04:05 BST (UK) »
Hi Lass

You make me blush, really! I was just luckly enough to find Benjamin on the 1861, is all! And if not for JAP's  very informed questions and information,  I wouldn't have even got to that   ;D  As to where to look next, well I truly have no idea apart form the ususal, narrowing down of locations  and a bit of 2 +2 ing  ;D

My feeling is that David snr and Margaret surely must have left the Scotland sometime prior to Benjamin being born (all the while, assuming  the information of the death cert was correct in naming his parents as it did).

If Adam was their son, I would also like to think they are still in the UK if not Scotland in 1841 too.... wish I could find them, and wish we could discover what David did for a living when he was in Scotland.  A wonderful mystery all round, it's like it's all there on the tongue-tip - waiting for that one little trigger  ;D

My thoughts, with trying to pin down the earliest known locations of the Chilean family, is to then be able to find Churches in the area which may have records, of their baptism, marriages and burials..........a headstone would be Perfick, with all the dates and names listed and still legible, of course....

Burdeos or Burdeaos - translates into "Bordeaux" or "Burgundy"  (there's the vino again!).

The only reference I can find to "Burdeos" in Chile is :
Roca Villa do Burdeos, which as far I can work out, a geographical location - like a Coral Rock or something, a scenic landmark, 43K from Concepcion......in the Biobio valley.
http://water.worldcitydb.com/roca_villa_do_burdeos_159170.html
http://www.tageo.com/index-e-ci-v-06-d-159170.htm
http://travelingluck.com/South%20America/Chile/B%C3%ADo-B%C3%ADo/_3965321_Roca+Villa+do+Burdeos.html#themap

It sort of seems in the right area, doesn't it? Could they have live near it perhaps? Unless it had a house perched on top of it!!

Hmmm!

cheers
AMBLY


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)