Author Topic: Looking for SMITH family - Gypsy's ??  (Read 44742 times)

Offline Jay Cee

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Re: Looking for SMITH family - Gypsy's ??
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 03 June 08 08:29 BST (UK) »
Thanks Amanda,

My email system has been "down" for the last 3 or 4 days so I am now playing catch-up too.  Are you related to Esau and Henty by any chance because, according to my family history as passed down, I am, albeit distantly.  The family story is that Esau was given the deeds to Black Patch but after he died they were burnt along with his caravan in the traditional way of the Romanies.  The land then passed on to the "Crown". 

Regards Jay Cee

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Offline Jay Cee

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Re: Looking for SMITH family - Gypsy's ??
« Reply #10 on: Monday 16 June 08 16:37 BST (UK) »
I have the death certificate for Esau Smith, King of Black Patch.  He was a Retired Horse Dealer who died on 4 March 1901 aged 92 years.  His death was registered by an "E. SMITH" who was present at the death in Black Patch.  She was his daughter-in-law.  Does anyone know the full name of E. SMITH and which of Esau and Henty's sons she was married to?  Did she have any children of her own?

Jay Cee

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Offline social-butterflies

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Re: Looking for SMITH family - Gypsy's ??
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 21 June 08 23:56 BST (UK) »
found eso smith son of easu & henty married to harriett smith/holland, their child, erenest smith married ellen gorman, both of these would then be an e.smith!
have i said this before......it sounds familiar?
also a listing of esau smith child of miah smith 1816 brockhall, parents listed as jeremiah/rhoda gypsies if no fixed abode, (nfa)
buckley
webb
boswell (shadrack line)
pearse
lee
smith (inc epping forest)
heron
bibby

Offline social-butterflies

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Re: Looking for SMITH family - Gypsy's ??
« Reply #12 on: Sunday 22 June 08 00:04 BST (UK) »
(*) Moderator Comment:  References to a living person removed at that person's request.
buckley
webb
boswell (shadrack line)
pearse
lee
smith (inc epping forest)
heron
bibby

Offline Andcarred

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Re: Looking for SMITH family - Gypsy's ??
« Reply #13 on: Sunday 22 June 08 04:15 BST (UK) »
Hi,

I am looking for a Smith family from this area.  I think they were canal boat people.   Is it likely canal boat families would also have been gypsies?

Andcarred
Allwood-Birmingham-Australia
Collins-Dublin
North-Sweden
Vincent-Dewlish, Dorset
Austen-Lydd
Dewsbury-Sutton Bonnington, Notts
Wood-Leeds/Huddersfield, Yorks
Godden-Cornwall/London
Jackett-Cornwall

Offline Jay Cee

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Re: Looking for SMITH family - Gypsy's ??
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 22 June 08 06:40 BST (UK) »
Thanks aa1webb for your useful info.

I think the 2xE.Smiths you mention would have described themselves as grandson and granddaughter-in-law of Esau.

Working backward down my tree, my g-grandmother was Martha Smith whose father is shown as John Smith (coal miner) on her wedding cert in 1889.  You told me that Esau and Henty had another son called John.  Do you know if this John married and had children?  If he did he may be our link back to Esau.

Will look up the book you mention, I am still waiting for a copy of Rudge's Brumroamin to come through but I can identify photos from him of Black Patch with photos we have in the family.

There is a suggestion that our family of Gypsys' Smith worked the canals.  There was (or is) a canal passing near to Black Patch and there are stories that my g-g-grandfather had a site near the canal outside Bulwell (Notts) and the canals outside Luton (Beds) are mentioned; however, I am not an expert on the Gypsey way of life.  Can anyone else help?

Jay Cee

Offline social-butterflies

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Re: Looking for SMITH family - Gypsy's ??
« Reply #15 on: Sunday 22 June 08 09:20 BST (UK) »
morning jaycee,
i have no idea who he married im afraid. sorry about that.
i can tell you that easu had siblings if thats any help and his parents, unless you already have this info, in which case it wont be of any use ;D
buckley
webb
boswell (shadrack line)
pearse
lee
smith (inc epping forest)
heron
bibby

Offline Jay Cee

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Re: Looking for SMITH family - Gypsy's ??
« Reply #16 on: Monday 23 June 08 05:54 BST (UK) »
Thanks aa1webb for trying. 

Yes, if you know the parentage of Esau and his siblings that would be a great help and would take us back another generation.

Also, do you have the marriage details of Esau and Henty? (ie where and when?).

Do you think that Eso (son of Esau) is short for or a mis-spelling of Esau?  We have another Esau who fits the bill who emigrated to the USA with a brother and returned at the end of his life to die in Luton C.1907.

Regards,  Jay Cee

Offline social-butterflies

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Re: Looking for SMITH family - Gypsy's ??
« Reply #17 on: Monday 23 June 08 15:37 BST (UK) »
thats ok.
sorry no dates for their marriage or anything.
esau's parents: rhoda boswell & nehemiah (maia/omiah/jeremiah/miriam) (all alias used) smith. father said to be ''horse thief transported after 1850 to tasmania'' no other details for them.

sentinia's parents: sarah boswell (sister of above) to woodfine smith married 05/09/1811in hillmorton wks. witness jane Iifl.
a note on the page reads; decendants of woodfine and maia had 12 cousin marriages. i would presume that this means that the cousins, the children of both brothers all maried each other.

sorry i cant help any more but im sure if you ever get to read the smith gypsy genealogoies then you will find out more, as to be honest there are many, many smiths, all from different lines. this info above is only what i have copied from his book so i do not know how exact the info is and to what use it will be to you. happy hunting jaycee
buckley
webb
boswell (shadrack line)
pearse
lee
smith (inc epping forest)
heron
bibby