John Howarth - Rochdale

[47813]

Hi everyone

Had one of those heart sinking moments today when in the post i got the marriage certificate of my GG-Grandfather and mother. Only to find the one piece of information i wanted (my GG-grandfather's fathers name) was not there on account of him being Deceased.

I know this can happen alot and i've always dreaded it happening to me and finally it has.
What with JOHN HOWARTH being a common name in Rochdale and only his age the other thing to search with i really really could have done with his fathers name.

Heres a few of the details:

JOHN HOWARTH (25) and ELIZA BRIDGENS (20) married 12th June 1889, Rochdale

Well thats my problem, this being a first for me i would really like to know how i can go on from here. How can i find John's family and be certain that this is my John Howarth.

Looking back the nearest census in 1881 there are quite a few John Howarth's

I do have one family that could be his in so far as the head of this family is a Jane Howarth and she is a widow.
This is just pure guess work and as far as i can see there is no way i can easily find out if this family indeed is the same John Howarth.

Any next moves would be grafefully accepted

Thankyou

Jonathan

[emmsthheight]

Hi Jonathan

Where did he marry?  ie which establishment?  Is it a register you or someone can get to fairly easil to look for any siblings who may have married earlier, before the father was deceaesd? 

Have you got witnesses on that certificate?  Are they siblings who you might find to identify the family?  Posiibly cousins or sisters under married mames?

Have you looked for or asked for a newspaper announcement which might give different information, such as the father?  Rochdale Local Studies are amazing for helping.

Actually, being Rochdale, whatabout grave details?  I know you have to pay a little now, or get all the details and maybe someone on here can help.

I know I've had loads of clues from these.  If you could get the exact dayte for his wife's death, and find if she was buried in the cemetery, there are probably about six entries withaddresses and dates and her husband may even be in the same place.
Or howabout looking at the brilliant section on Rochdale on Interment.com?

Good luck!

Emms

[mosiefish]

Another thought is what was his address on the marriage certificate?  I know it could have been a "suitcase" address, but on the other hand it may not have been. 

Regards,
Mo

[uk2003]

Hi Jonathan

My 50p is on John Howarth born 1828 ( see 1861 census ) died between 1865 & 1871

The freebmd index shows 8 John Howards dying in 1865 but does not give ages - 1866 to 1871 no john of the right age die.

Still does not answer the question, but best fit seems to work for now.

Need to look at the siblings of John Howard (1865) to look for name replications in their children, ya just never know

**************************************************

1901 census - Spotland, Rochdale

Eliza Howarth 31 
Ernest Howarth 6 
Fred Howarth 9 
Gertrude Howarth 8 
Gladys Howarth 2 
John Howarth 36 - born Rochdale 1865
William John Howarth 1 -  birth Q1 Rochdale 1901 8e 39
   

*************************************************

1891 census - Wuerdle and Wardle Rochdale                                                                        

Eliza Howarth 21                                                                           
John Howarth 26   
                                                                                                     Harry Howarth 7 
                                                                                                     John R Howarth 9 
                                                                                                     Ada Howarth 1
                                                                                                     James Howarth 34 


                                                                         Birth John Robert Howarth Q4 1881 Rochdale  8e 19

*************************************************

1881 censu - Castleton, Rochdale
 
Esther Howarth 23 
James Howarth 24 
Jane Howarth 49 
John Howarth 16 

Marriage James & Esther Travis Q4 1880 Rochdale 8e 43
 
*************************************************

1871 census - Castleton, Rochdale
 
James Howarth 14 
Jane Howarth 39 Widow
John Howarth 6  
Robert Howarth 16 
 

*************************************************

1861 census _ Castleton, Rochdale
 
Ann Howarth 38 (lodger)
James Howarth 4  
Jane Howarth 28 
John Howarth, 33, Head, born 1828.  
Robert Howarth 6  

Possible marriage's
John & Jane
Jane Hardman, Q4, 1852, Rochdale, 8e, 87
Jane Clapham, Q1, 1855, Rochdale, 8e, 9

*************************************************

1851 census - Castleton, Rochdale

Ann Howarth 27 
Emma Howarth 15 
John Howarth 23 Son
Mary Howarth 48 Widow Head
Robert Howarth 26
*************************************************

1841 census - Castleton, Rochdale

Abraham Howarth 4 
Charles Howarth 7 
Elizabeth Howarth 11 
James Howarth 14 
John Howarth 13 
Mary Howarth 35 
Robert Howarth 15 
Thomas Howarth 1 
William Howarth 35 born abt 1806
William Howarth 9 

Possible marriage's
William & Mary
MARY ASHWORTH, 07 JAN 1822,   St Chad, Rochdale, Lancashire, England
MARY TURNER, 12 DEC 1824,   St Chad'S, Rochdale, Lancashire, England

Possible parents of William

James Howarth and Martha ?
Birth:  23 OCT 1803   
Christening:  11 MAR 1804   Rochdale, Lancashire, England
 

 

 


Regards
Ken

[emmsthheight]

Hi

I know it's John's family you're after, but if these are the right ones it would put them quite close to Eliza's family in 1891

RG12/3334

2 Mount St

Henry Bridgens Head M     48    Iron moulder    Worcestershire Stonecliffe?
Ann             ,,    Wife  M      46                            Lancashire  Rochdale
James          ,,   Father Widr 71   Retired glassmaker Worcs   Stonecliffe
Ann Eliz     ,,      Daur  un    25  Woollen weaver            ,,            ,,
Sarah    ,,            ,,      S       20    ,,           ,,
James    ,,              Son    S   17   Cottonwarehouseman   ,,     ,,
Henry    ,,               ,,        S   14   Woolllen bleacher in--    ,,     ,,
William   ,,              ,,               10 Woollen piecer                 ,,         ,, 
Bridget   ,,               Daur          9   Scholar                         ,,          ,,
George   ,,               Son           7       ,,                                ,,           ,,
George Samuel Gitten GS                                     Warwickshire Birmingham

Looks like the right area


Best wishes

Emms

[47813]

Wow thanks guys. Stering work!

That was my line of thought but wouldn't have a real easy time finding out for sure if it was the right family.

To answer one point, the witnesses don't help because they are both Bridgens'

Got very exicted by the Robert Howarth in 1861 because i left out the family legend if you like. that is as follows:

My granddad says that Jack Howarth who was in Coronation Street for many years was from our family. He said he was a distant cousin.
Now Jack Howarth was born in 1896 i think or may have been 1899 (its been a while!) so he isn't my grandfathers cousin but would be my G-Grandfathers cousin ie. John Howarth's son Fred my granddad's dad.

Now on the net he (Jack) has a small bio and that says his father was one Bert Howarth a local comidien. Bert of course could be Herbert or Robert to name but two.

I have a little trouble making out all the words on the marriage certificate but i can see that it says 'The Parish Church in the parish of All Saint's....'
Can't make out the last word it is six letters and ends in what looks like auce.

Thankyou everyone this has lifted me up some, now i'm confident we can get John's right family.

Jonathan

P.S. Just to add on marriage certificate John's address is listed as what looks like 4 Arnold Street while Eliza's is the Bridgens family home on the 1891 census - 2a Mount Street.

[Gillg]

Jonathan

According to the Lancs BMD site John Howarth and Eliza Bridgens were married at All Saints, Hamer.  The district of Hamer lies to the northeast of Rochdale town centre on the way to Littleborough.

Although this is probably Eliza's church (*but see last para) rather than John's, it might help you to select which of the many John Howarths is yours.  If you are fairly sure that his mother's name is Jane and that his year of birth is 1864 or thereabouts you could send for his birth cert stating these facts.  That way, if you apply at Rochdale Register Office, you should get all your money back if they can't find a matching mother and son, whereas the GRO will charge a handling fee of, I think, £2.

Searching for a clue to the names of John's parents I started looking on Lancs BMD for marriages of a Howarth to a Jane in Rochdale in the years running up to John's birth, and found 10 or more, which wasn't very helpful.   

*Arnold Street is right in the town centre, Mount Street slightly further west, which doesn't explain why they married in Hamer, I'm afraid.

Gillg

[47813]

I was wondering if some kind person(s) could rule one family out of the list?

On the 1881 census there is a John Howarth birth listed as Rochdale, 1867.
His ocupation is 'Grocers Assisant' which fits with his later jobs,

One little problem as you will know he listed his father as deceased on getting married in 1889 only this John Howarth's father is alive and well in 1881.
Of course he could have died in the eight years and thats what i would like to know.

His parents are James Howarth, 42 and Sarah Howarth, 40
He has siblings Thomas, 9 and Annie, 2

Is James still alive in 1891 with Sarah, Thomas (maybe - would be 19) and Annie?

If he is then that may rule this family out the running.

Thankyou

Jonathan

[emmsthheight]

Hi Jonathan

I've had a look with this spelling.

There are a fair few James and Sarah's but none of them standmout or look that likely when I look at the ages together with occupationns and birthplaces, including little places on the edge of Rochdale.

Hope you get there.

Emms