Author Topic: Can anyone pick the uniform? Photo taken 1885 Scotland  (Read 8737 times)

Offline JenClark

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Re: Can anyone pick the uniform? Photo taken 1885 Scotland
« Reply #27 on: Thursday 03 September 15 12:57 BST (UK) »
No worries Mark, always lovely to see pictures, glad you enjoyed them  ;)
Clark, Sommerlad, Bowden, Barrett, Griffey, Sayers, Bridge, Walters, Pollard, Capel, Dibble, James, Lingard, Mensforth, Watts, Rutherford, Stainton, Chatterton, Tubbs, Thompson, Fulton, Booth, Sellwood, Edwards, Pitcher, Creech, Johns, Phillips, Roberts, Keast, Tregonning, Mason, Lancefield, Ibberson, Green, Case, Cook, Dunham, Porter, Pope, Hall, Welsh, Hellefield, Warburton, Fletcher, Foster, Stiles, Tait, Nicoll, Sutherland, McIntyre, Cole, Neal, Ladlow, Bellamy, Castleton, Barker, Yuill

Offline s58roads

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Re: Can anyone pick the uniform? Photo taken 1885 Scotland
« Reply #28 on: Tuesday 30 June 20 15:27 BST (UK) »
My 2nd Great Grandfather, John Mann, died on 7 Sep 1866 aged 73 at Coutties Wynd, Forfar.
According to the Dundee Advertiser dated 10 Sep 1866 under the heading SUDDEN DEATH:
------  Mr. Mann was one of the oldest members of the band of the local Militia of Forfarshire,
he having acted as bass drummer, and continued so up to nearly the time of his death. He was bass drummer in the Rifle Volunteer Band as long as he was able to act.
My question is what would his uniform look like and was this a paid/pensionable activity?
Look forward to any further information.
Geoff

Mann, Forfar
Dalrymple, Closeburn
McPake, Carluke
Stormont, Forfar
Waterston, Forfar

Online jim1

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Re: Can anyone pick the uniform? Photo taken 1885 Scotland
« Reply #29 on: Tuesday 30 June 20 17:05 BST (UK) »
To answer your 1st. question it's yes.
The 2nd. would depend on his Regt.
Forfarshire Volunteers is one but there were also Royal Artillery
Volunteers.
The Forfarshire Regt. Volunteers (c. 1860's) uniform looked like this.
A Bandsman would have had different epaulettes.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/


Offline JenClark

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Re: Can anyone pick the uniform? Photo taken 1885 Scotland
« Reply #30 on: Wednesday 01 July 20 09:34 BST (UK) »
Hey Geoff,

From the newspaper article it looks like he may have been a drummer in the Dundee Volunteer Rifle Corps, otherwise known as the 1st Forfarshire Rifle Volunteers.

According to the book I found online, this Corps was formed in 1859, and in 1887 became the 1st (Dundee) Volunteer Battalion, The Black Watch.

https://archive.org/details/recordsofscottis00grierich

Records of the Scottish volunteer force, 1859-1908
by Grierson, James Moncrieff, Sir, 1859-1914

The book has a verbal description of the uniforms as well as a colour plate. It shows the uniform that Jim posted....but in colour  ;)

I hope this helps you out  ;D
Clark, Sommerlad, Bowden, Barrett, Griffey, Sayers, Bridge, Walters, Pollard, Capel, Dibble, James, Lingard, Mensforth, Watts, Rutherford, Stainton, Chatterton, Tubbs, Thompson, Fulton, Booth, Sellwood, Edwards, Pitcher, Creech, Johns, Phillips, Roberts, Keast, Tregonning, Mason, Lancefield, Ibberson, Green, Case, Cook, Dunham, Porter, Pope, Hall, Welsh, Hellefield, Warburton, Fletcher, Foster, Stiles, Tait, Nicoll, Sutherland, McIntyre, Cole, Neal, Ladlow, Bellamy, Castleton, Barker, Yuill

Offline JenClark

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Re: Can anyone pick the uniform? Photo taken 1885 Scotland
« Reply #31 on: Wednesday 01 July 20 10:00 BST (UK) »
Sorry Geoff, just realised that your chap lived in Couttie's Wynd, Forfar not Couttie's Wynd, Dundee!

In that case he may have been in the 2nd Forfarshire Rifle Volunteers, this Corps was based in Forfar.

Looks like they had grey uniforms until 1864, similar to the ones that the the 1st Forfarshire RV started out with...then moved to the Scarlet tunics as per Jim's post ;)

Clark, Sommerlad, Bowden, Barrett, Griffey, Sayers, Bridge, Walters, Pollard, Capel, Dibble, James, Lingard, Mensforth, Watts, Rutherford, Stainton, Chatterton, Tubbs, Thompson, Fulton, Booth, Sellwood, Edwards, Pitcher, Creech, Johns, Phillips, Roberts, Keast, Tregonning, Mason, Lancefield, Ibberson, Green, Case, Cook, Dunham, Porter, Pope, Hall, Welsh, Hellefield, Warburton, Fletcher, Foster, Stiles, Tait, Nicoll, Sutherland, McIntyre, Cole, Neal, Ladlow, Bellamy, Castleton, Barker, Yuill

Offline JenClark

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Re: Can anyone pick the uniform? Photo taken 1885 Scotland
« Reply #32 on: Wednesday 01 July 20 10:11 BST (UK) »
Ok, one last post from me Geoff....then I will leave you in peace  ;D

I had a look in the newspapers to see if I could find anything else linking John Mann to the Volunteer Rifles....I didn't find anything....but one article did come up that you may not have seen before.

I can see from your tree on Ancestry that John Mann was a weaver, and that his family lived at Couttie's Wynd, Forfar in the 1851 and 1861 census returns. So the chap mentioned in the below artilce is most likely your John. It is from the section of the newspaper reporting news in Forfar.

I hope it helps illustrate your John Mann's life a little further  ;)

Jenny
Clark, Sommerlad, Bowden, Barrett, Griffey, Sayers, Bridge, Walters, Pollard, Capel, Dibble, James, Lingard, Mensforth, Watts, Rutherford, Stainton, Chatterton, Tubbs, Thompson, Fulton, Booth, Sellwood, Edwards, Pitcher, Creech, Johns, Phillips, Roberts, Keast, Tregonning, Mason, Lancefield, Ibberson, Green, Case, Cook, Dunham, Porter, Pope, Hall, Welsh, Hellefield, Warburton, Fletcher, Foster, Stiles, Tait, Nicoll, Sutherland, McIntyre, Cole, Neal, Ladlow, Bellamy, Castleton, Barker, Yuill

Offline s58roads

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Re: Can anyone pick the uniform? Photo taken 1885 Scotland
« Reply #33 on: Wednesday 01 July 20 10:39 BST (UK) »
Thanks to Jim and Jen for your valuable contributions. No problem Jen keep them coming!
I assume any of his Militia service details will be available through the various references mentioned earlier in this thread?
Geoff
Mann, Forfar
Dalrymple, Closeburn
McPake, Carluke
Stormont, Forfar
Waterston, Forfar

Offline JenClark

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Re: Can anyone pick the uniform? Photo taken 1885 Scotland
« Reply #34 on: Wednesday 01 July 20 10:52 BST (UK) »
That one is a hard one Geoff...I never did find any official records for my 2 x great grandfather's time in the Forfarshire Volunteer Artillery  :-\

I am just lucky there were photographs otherwise I would never have suspected anything!

I am not at all sure of where records might be for the Forfarshire Volunteer Rifles...but as they became a Battalion of the Black Watch, perhaps start there? They may have an archive or museum?

Jenny
Clark, Sommerlad, Bowden, Barrett, Griffey, Sayers, Bridge, Walters, Pollard, Capel, Dibble, James, Lingard, Mensforth, Watts, Rutherford, Stainton, Chatterton, Tubbs, Thompson, Fulton, Booth, Sellwood, Edwards, Pitcher, Creech, Johns, Phillips, Roberts, Keast, Tregonning, Mason, Lancefield, Ibberson, Green, Case, Cook, Dunham, Porter, Pope, Hall, Welsh, Hellefield, Warburton, Fletcher, Foster, Stiles, Tait, Nicoll, Sutherland, McIntyre, Cole, Neal, Ladlow, Bellamy, Castleton, Barker, Yuill

Offline JenClark

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Re: Can anyone pick the uniform? Photo taken 1885 Scotland
« Reply #35 on: Wednesday 01 July 20 11:11 BST (UK) »
I've had a look here...

https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/research/guides/military-records

they state:
"Records relating to volunteer and territorial forces, 19th to 20th centuries, can be found among the Ministry of Defence files (NRS reference MD)."

or you could try:

https://theblackwatch.co.uk/research/trace-a-soldier/

Though they do point you to the National Archives....whose records I believe are on Find My Past, but I couldn't see your John Mann there....

I also couldn't see much on their website for the Forfarshire Volunteer Rifles:

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=Forfarshire+Rifle+Volunteers



Others on this thread may have better suggestions though  ;)

Good luck with it!

Jenny
Clark, Sommerlad, Bowden, Barrett, Griffey, Sayers, Bridge, Walters, Pollard, Capel, Dibble, James, Lingard, Mensforth, Watts, Rutherford, Stainton, Chatterton, Tubbs, Thompson, Fulton, Booth, Sellwood, Edwards, Pitcher, Creech, Johns, Phillips, Roberts, Keast, Tregonning, Mason, Lancefield, Ibberson, Green, Case, Cook, Dunham, Porter, Pope, Hall, Welsh, Hellefield, Warburton, Fletcher, Foster, Stiles, Tait, Nicoll, Sutherland, McIntyre, Cole, Neal, Ladlow, Bellamy, Castleton, Barker, Yuill