Author Topic: Poole/Owen marriage, Llanasa 1805  (Read 37196 times)

Offline MaryJC

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Re: Poole/Owen marriage, Llanasa 1805
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 15 July 08 23:14 BST (UK) »
I have researched the bishop's transcripts for Newmarket and have found what I think are all of Peter & Hester's children (minus Anne). 

Hugh Poole (born Jan. 7, 1808/chr. Jan. 8, 1808 @ Newmarket)
Elizabeth Poole (born Apr. 9, 1810/chr. Apr. 12, 1810 @ Newmarket)
Hester Poole (born Oct. 24, 1811/chr. Oct. 25, 1811 @ Newmarket)
David Poole (born Feb. 10, 1812/chr. Feb. 16, 1812 @ Newmarket)
Jane Poole (born July 30, 1815/chr. Aug. 17, 1815 @Newmarket)
Maria Poole (born Nov. 8, 1818/chr. Nov. 30, 1818 @ Newmarket)

The dates must be off for Hester & David because that would put them at 4 months apart...obliviously that's not right.  I have an actual copy of the bishop's transcript for both Jane and Maria's birth that I would be glad to send you.

Mary

Offline MaryJC

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Re: Poole/Owen marriage, Llanasa 1805
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 15 July 08 23:28 BST (UK) »
Also,

I am not sure what to make of Peter Poole & Hester Owens as well as Peter Poole and Esther Jones.  My guess is that they are 2 different couples.  Peter Poole & Hester Jones had 2 children that I am aware of:

Peter Poole (born 18 Jun 1821/chr. 11 Jul 1821 @ TreLogan Calvinistic Methodist Church)
Elizabeth Poole (born 21 Feb 1824/chr. 9 Mar 1824 @ TreLogan Calvinistic Methodist Church)

I don't think they are the same couples because Peter & Hester already had a daughter named Elizabeth, also Peter & Hester had their children baptized in a Presbyterian Church at Newmarket, while the other Peter's children were baptized into the Calvinistic Methodist.

However, who knows, I could be wrong.  In the 1841 census it lists Peter & Hester with Peter & Elizabeth (who would be the ages given according to their birth years mentioned above)  it also lists Benjamin Roberts the oldest sibling of my Christopher Roberts. 

Confusing...there are too many Peter Pooles!

Offline llessur

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Re: Poole/Owen marriage, Llanasa 1805
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 05 August 08 12:56 BST (UK) »
Not sure whether this will get to you as I;ve only just signed up to be a member - I'm trying to trace a John Poole who's Father was Peter Poole. I have determined from the 1871 Census that John was born in Newmarket - his age on the census was 61 in 1871 and I know from his marriage certificate that his Father was called Peter - can you help.

Offline Barbara.H

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Re: Poole/Owen marriage, Llanasa 1805
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 05 August 08 14:37 BST (UK) »
Welcome to rootschat Llessur!  :D :D

What occupation does your Peter Poole have on the marriage certificate?  My Peter Poole (father of Jane, who ended up in Manchester) was a lead miner. As you can see from this thread, we have several  Peters but not enough Johns ...  ::)

I've just looked on the census - is your John Poole the one in Durham in 1871?

Barbara
LANCS:  Greenwood, Greenhalgh, Fishwick, Berry,
CHES/DERBYS:  Vernon
YORKS/LINCS: Watson, Stamford, Bartholomew,
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline llessur

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Re: Poole/Owen marriage, Llanasa 1805
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 05 August 08 15:48 BST (UK) »
Barbara,

Thanks for the prompt response - yes, John Poole is the one in the Northeast, married to Ellen Poole (Nee Carr). On their marriage certificate in 1854, Peter's occupation was a farmer.

As I say, that is all the information I have on Peter. I believe John was born circa 1810 in Newmarket but have been unable to find him on the 1841, 1851 or 1861 census - likewise Peter.

Best Regards.

Offline MaryJC

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Re: Poole/Owen marriage, Llanasa 1805
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 07 August 08 04:32 BST (UK) »
llessur,

I do know of a couple of John Pools but I am not sure that they are who you are looking for.  I found a John Pool in the 1841 census in Whitford parish.  In 1841 he is 30 and a lead ore miner.  However he is married to a Charlotte Pool, age 30.  They have 3 children, Jane 8, Joseph 6, and Elizabeth 2.  Is it possible that Charlotte could have died and maybe Ellen was a 2nd wife?  Just a thought.  Another thought I had is that maybe your John and my Anne are siblings (Anne was born apx. 1807).  I have searched everywhere for Anne's birth record and also for her parents names but am unable to find them.  I too think that a man named Peter Poole was her father because on Anne's death certificate in 1841 it lists a Peter Poole from Newmarket as present at her death and the informant to the registrar.  I have Peter Poole's signature on the death notice.  Did your Peter Poole sign the marriage certificate?  We could compare handwritings to see if it is the same Peter. 

Best Wishes, MaryJC   

Offline llessur

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Re: Poole/Owen marriage, Llanasa 1805
« Reply #15 on: Monday 11 August 08 12:34 BST (UK) »
Mary,

Thanks ever so much for your reply - we may indeed be related!

When John Poole married in 1854 in Hallam, Sheffield his occupation was a Miner and he was a Widower - Ellen was his second wife. I have found him on the 1871 census where his age was 61, so he was born circa 1810. Having said that, when he married in 1854, he put his age down as 37. This could have been because Ellen at the time was 26 and therefore he lied about his age. I cannot find him, ellen or his children on any othe Census return before 1871 - I can find Ellen Poole with some of her children on the 1881 Census but not John - presumably he died before 1881.

I don't have Peter's signature on John's wedding certificate - the only information I have about Peter is that he put his occupation as a farmer.

Any further information you have on the Poole's would be greatly received.

Best Regards.

Offline MaryJC

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Re: Poole/Owen marriage, Llanasa 1805
« Reply #16 on: Monday 11 August 08 23:15 BST (UK) »
llessur,

I was so glad to get your reply!  How interesting!  My best guess is that your John Poole is the one that I have found in the 1841 census.  The parish he is living in is Whitford, the hundred is Coleshill, and the township is Uwch Glanisa or Glan Isa (I couldn't quite tell).  On the 1841 census it says that John is a miner and that John, Charlotte, and their 3 children were all born in the county (Flintshire).  Again it lists his age as 30 in 1841 (they often rounded in the 41 census I have discovered).  I did find some marriage information for John and Charlotte.  They were married June 16, 1832 I think in Newmarket but I can't remember and forgot to write it down.  John it said was born in Newmarket and Charlotte was born in Whitford  (this would explain why he lived in Whitford at the 1841 census).  I did find more children of theirs also.  They are as follows:

Jane, born 24 Sept 1832 @ Whitford
Joseph, born 11 Oct 1834 @ Llanasa OR Intogmn
Elizabeth, born 17 Sept 1838 @ Whitford
Easter, christened 4 Dec 1842 @ Whitford
Sarah, christened 5 Apr 1846 @ Whitford
Mary Ann, born OR christened 4 Sept 1849 @ Whitford

Do you know if any of these children are listed as your John Poole's children?

The other John Poole that I know of is a John Poole of Gwaenyspar who married Elizabeth.  The only thing that I know about this couple is that they had a son named Joshua, baptized 29 Oct 1797, and a daughter named Jane, baptized 2 Jun 1803.  I am sure this couple had more children either before Joshua or after Jane but I have not been able to find them.  I think that this John is a brother to Peter Poole (mentioned in the past posts) because he is also from Gwaenyspar.  My best guess is that my Anne Poole and your John Poole are either John and Elizabeth's children or Peter and Hester's.  I have a hunch that your John and my Anne are siblings, if not then first cousins.  Anne Poole married John Roberts 15 Dec 1827 at Newmarket.  One of their sons Christopher Roberts is my 2x great-grandfather.  Since his mother died when he was very young he and the brothers were sent to live with Peter Poole and Hester.  Christopher is listed as living with them during the 1851 census along with 2 of his brothers.  The problem is that they are listed as nephews to Peter Poole.  I don't know if they are really nephews (which means that John  & Elizabeth could be their grandparents) or if they are really grandchildren.  Christopher immigrated to America when he was in his early 20s and from all accounts that I know of he does not say who his grandparents are on either side of his family line.  So, this is my dilemma, to find Anne's birth record and to find out who her parents really are.  One other side note:  there is a Sarah Jones (formerly Poole) and a Robert Roberts who witnessed the marriage of Anne Poole to John Roberts.  The witnesses to Peter Poole and Hester Owens marriage were listed as Robert Roberts and Sarah Poole (not yet married).  I think that Sarah is a sister to Peter Poole and John Poole and an aunt to Anne.  As far as the Robert Roberts is concerned I am not sure what to make of that! 

Sincerely,
Mary
 

Offline llessur

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Re: Poole/Owen marriage, Llanasa 1805
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 12 August 08 13:45 BST (UK) »
Mary,

Once again, many thanks for the information. Have you been able to find John Poole and his children anywhere on the 1861 census (assuming Charlotte did die before 1854 the year John married Ellen Carr in Hallam, Shefield).

I can find them all living in Whitford on the 1851 Census - do you have the full details of this? If so, could you please let me have?

Do you know where Peter Poole was living in 1841 or any other information about Peter Poole.

Best Regards,