Author Topic: Traveller musicians  (Read 26944 times)

Offline kdc650

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Traveller musicians
« on: Tuesday 01 July 08 11:41 BST (UK) »
Some of you know already that I'm working on a book for the RTFHS on Traveller musicians active before 1900. I've cast my net far and wide, and isolated 265 individuals so far, mainly fiddle players. The sources which are more of a problem are the certificates of birth, marriage and death, which are too costly to be speculative about. I was wondering if any of you have information from either this type of source, or family tradition, or any other less accessible source. I would be so pleased to learn anything further. And, of course, I will be happy to share my own research if you contact me offlist.

Many thanks in advance.

Keith


Here is a brief listing of those found so far :


BLACK   Amos alias BLACKMAN / Morris
BOSS   Charles / Newton aka Newcombe / Robert
BOSWELL   Aaron / Andrew / Bruce / Byron / Charles alias BOSS / Edward / Edward Mackenzie / Elias / Elias ('Lias') / Frampton / Frederick ('King of the Manx Gypsies') / George / Hezekiah / Hope / Isaiah / John / John / Joseph / Lawrence / Lawrence / Levi / Lewis / Mackenzie ('Kenza') alias James SMALL/ Major / Mordecai alias WAINWRIGHT / Moses alias BOSS / Moses / Nelson / O'Connor aka Fergus Occona / Oscar ('Womanly') / Peter / Plato aka William / Riley / Samuel / Seth / Silvester ('Wester', 'Westrous') / Theophilus / Thomas / Trafalgar / Uriah / Zachariah aka John
BOWERS   Henry
BUCKLAND Abraham / Absalom ('Stinker') / Edward ('Winggi') / Henry G. / Henry / Henry James / John Shipton / Moses / Nelson / Noah / Owen / Plato / Tenant / Thomas aka John / William / William / William Emanuel
BURCHALL James / James
CLEMENTS James
DAVIS   Albert alias Thomas DAVIES / Frederick / Mark Henry / Thomas alias DAVIES
DOE   Albert
DRAPER   Ambrose / Edward / Edward / Elias / Israel / James alias CLARK / Joseph / Samuel
EYRES   James
GAGE   Walter Joseph
GRAY   Adolphus / Alfred / Charles / Frederick / George / George / George / Henry / Israel / John Budd / John / Joshua / Louis / Obediah / Oseri / Oseri / Oseri aka Eckley / Piramus / Samuel / Sunny / Thomas aka William Joshua / Thomas alias Ambrose DRAPER alias Thomas SMITH / Yoben
GREEN   Frederick / George / Henry / Mackenzie ('Kenza') alias SMALLWOOD / Matthew / Samuel / William
HARRIS   William ('Billy')
HERNE   Evergreen / John / Nukes ('Crimea') / William      
HOLLOWAY John / Thomas / Thomas
JAMES   Ancian
JOHNS   William OR Solomon
LEE   Adam / Charles / Ethal aka John alias WOOD / Eugene Walter / Felix Alfred / Henry / John / Joseph / Major / Oliver Alfred alias WOOD / Silvester aka Wester / Thomas / Valentine V. / Walter / Zachariah / Zachariah / Zachariah
LEWIS   Louis / Siterus aka John / Thomas
LOCK   Bert / Enoch ('Winkles') / Ezekial / Ezekial / John / Herbert / Isaiah aka James ('Pollen') / Leonard Buzzi / Noah alias  BOSWELL / Noah aka Manoah alias  BOSWELL / Somerset Joseph / Vivian Delmore aka Charles / Zachariah alias Henry ('Harry') BOSWELL / Zebulon James
LOVELL   Arthur / Charles ('Wry-necked Charley') / Charles / Henry / Horatio Lamprey / John ('Concertina Johnny') / Walter Charles
LOVERIDGE Moses
MACE   James ('Jem')
MARTIN   Henry
McLEAN   Charles / James
MIDDLETON Alfred James / Edwin / James
PERRY   Peter
RAINBOW   John
REDMAN   Mitchel Robert
ROBINSON Elias ('Lias') / Eros / John
ROGERS   Thomas
SCARROTT Charles / James
SHAW   Aaron ('Funny Aaron Jeks') / Arthur / Arthur / Arthur ('Rinky') / Charles / James / James ('Big Jim') / James / John ('Little Jack') / John ('Ne'er do well') / Larry / Larry / Moses / Moses / Noah / Rodney aka William / Tiger ('Fiddling') / Tobias / Walter / William / William ('Willie')
SMITH   Abey / Abslolm / Albert Edward / Betsey / Cain / Charles / Charles / Charles Simpson / Cornelius alias SHAW / Elijah / Henry / Henry / Henry Robert / Hercules ('Old Arti') / Hercules aka Arkless / Isaac / Israel / James ('Jemmy') / James / James / James H. / Jasper / Job / Job / John / John / John / John / John / John Francis / Jonas / Josiah / Josiah aka John / Levi / Nelson / Neptune / Perrin / Riley / Sampson / Shandres / Stephen / Thomas ('Fiddling Tom') / Thomas / Thomas / Thomas / Tobias / Walter Herbert / William ('Black Willy') / William / William / Wisdom
TAYLOR   Obediah D. alias DIAPER
TOWNSEND Lawrence
WELCH   Moses / William
WILLIAMS    Henry/Thomas / William ('Fiddling Billy')
WOOD   Abraham aka Abram
YARDLEY   William
YOUNG   Esau / John aka Auther alias Oli HERNE

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Offline willow154

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Re: Traveller musicians
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 01 July 08 11:56 BST (UK) »
Sorry, I don't personally, but it's sounds like a really interesting project.
Wish you every success.
At least it now back on the top of the list again : ;)
Paulene :)
Will let you know if I come across any others on my travels.

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Offline Old Bristolian

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Re: Traveller musicians
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 02 July 08 10:36 BST (UK) »
Hi Keith

Do you want information on people who were travelling solo musicians, or those who played in groups?
I have an ancestor who was on a Census as a musician (in lodgings) in 1881 & was with a "Wild West Show" as a musician in 1891. I've no idea what instrument he may have played, or when he died. Let me know if you would like details

Steve
Bumstead - London, Suffolk
Plant, Woolnough, Wase, Suffolk
Flexney, Godfrey, Burson, Hobby -  Oxfordshire
Street, Mitchell - Gloucestershire
Horwood, Heale Drew - Bristol
Gibbs, Gait, Noyes, Peters, Padfield, Board, York, Rogers, Horler, Heale, Emery, Clavey, Mogg, - Somerset
Fook, Snell - Devon
M(a)cDonald, Yuell, Gollan, McKenzie - Rosshire
McLennan, Mackintosh - Inverness
Williams, Jones - Angelsey & Caernarvon

Offline Burto

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Re: Traveller musicians
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 02 July 08 21:29 BST (UK) »
Hi,
I have an ancestor who is described as being a musican or "Professor of the Violin" on various census. There is also evidence of boxing running through the family and I have often wondered if they were Romany. 2 children disappeared from records as did their mother (one I think was sent to Australia for theft), although she possibly was moved from parish to parish.
They were Swifts. Do let me know if you want anymore details.
Swift , Matthews, Price , Clarke , Rockley, Dewey, Turton, Wild, Nottingham
Aldread, Brentnall, Cowlishaw Derbyshire
Elliot, The Borders/Nottingham FWK industry
Hartopp, NW Leicester (Barkby and surrounds).
Smith Bilston Staffordshire
Bennett, Calary? Ireland
Johnson, USA
75% British 25% American (Colonial, Hungarian, Eastern European, German, Scandinavian).

Offline willow154

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Re: Traveller musicians
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 02 July 08 21:41 BST (UK) »
Burto,
If the Swift family were in Nottingham there might be a record of her settlement certificate in the index at the archives office.
If you're really lucky there might be a settlement examination which will detail where the family came from and moved to. It's all indexed by surname and they'll let you know if the names are in the index, if you email.
Paulene :)

Offline Burto

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Re: Traveller musicians
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 03 July 08 19:10 BST (UK) »
Hi Willow,
Do you know what dates these certificates started from? My ancestor was living in a house in Nottingham in 1841, so not sure if that means he was of Romany descent? Are these certificates exclusive to travellers or to anyone who was moved around?
Thanks.
Swift , Matthews, Price , Clarke , Rockley, Dewey, Turton, Wild, Nottingham
Aldread, Brentnall, Cowlishaw Derbyshire
Elliot, The Borders/Nottingham FWK industry
Hartopp, NW Leicester (Barkby and surrounds).
Smith Bilston Staffordshire
Bennett, Calary? Ireland
Johnson, USA
75% British 25% American (Colonial, Hungarian, Eastern European, German, Scandinavian).

Offline willow154

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Re: Traveller musicians
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 03 July 08 22:33 BST (UK) »
Hi Burto,
They applied to everyone.
Here is a little explanation I found:
http://www.doncaster.gov.uk/Leisure_in_Doncaster/Libraries/Archives_Local_Studies/family_local_history/Settlement_Certificates.asp
Nottingham archives have the following:
Poor Law Records (City and County) (Cards)
Settlement Certificates and Examinations c1690-c1850
Removal Orders 1715-1866
Issued to people without a valid settlement certificate.
Maintenance Orders 1715-1866
Issued to the reputed father of an illegitimate child.
Hope this helps + good luck, Burto.
Paulene :)

Offline willow154

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Re: Traveller musicians
« Reply #7 on: Friday 04 July 08 00:11 BST (UK) »
Hi kdc650,
Sorry - back to the point.
Found these on the 1881 census:
*all described as travelling musicians:
Henry Wombwell b. 1809 Worksop, Notts
Frederick Wombwell b. 1852 Hull
Frank Carle b. 1862 Lanarkshire, Scotland
Chas J Dillon (Charles Joseph) b.1850 London, Middlesex
L A A Livermore B. 1854 London, Middlesex
George Wileman B. 1932 Leicestershire
Charles L Tapson b. 1850 Liverpool, Lancashire
Samuel L Hall b. 1839 Petton (?)
Paulene :)
Do you need more, or are you concentrarting on tracking down more information on the ones you have?

Offline lollyross

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Re: Traveller musicians
« Reply #8 on: Monday 18 August 08 15:21 BST (UK) »
I have a harp playing ancestor who travelled the country with his wife & children between 1860-1888 when he died.His background was Woolcombing{brother & father Woolcombers from Leicestershire,who then moved to Bradford,west yorks around 1830's.}and I wondered if you could enlighten me on how & why he would have taken up harping & singing as an occupation?
 1851  census-woolcomber, Bradford.
1861census he was in Norwich with a group of musicians.
 1863 married in Edinburgh
1863 child born Glasgow
1865   "       "     Liverpool
1868   "       "     Castle Donington
1871 census Middlesbrough
1871  Child born Cardiff
1874     "       "    Middlesbrough
1878     "       "             "
1880     "       "      Leeds
1881 census  Middlesbrough
1888 died in Union Workhouse Middlesbrough.
One of his sons continued in the harp playing but by the 1901 census was working in the Jarrow Shipyards as a riveter,which must have been more lucrative when he married and had a family.
Just wondered if you would have any info. on such people as above -even tho' they wern't "travellers or gypsies".
Good Luck with your book.   8)