Author Topic: Whitaugh Armstrongs  (Read 22667 times)

Offline Langtonian

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Re: Whitaugh Armstrongs
« Reply #18 on: Tuesday 18 August 09 12:09 BST (UK) »
Thanks Bob, excellent recommendations in terms of further reading, I look forward to reading these.

Ulster is a likely destination for the 3 Armstrongs mentioned, possibly before going to America.

We know that numerous other Borders bad lads such as Elliots, Johnstones, Nixons and Crosiers ended up in Ulster after be numerous misdemeanours in Scotland and England!

Regards,

George

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Offline Rewcastle

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Re: Whitaugh Armstrongs
« Reply #19 on: Thursday 23 June 11 16:17 BST (UK) »
Castlebob, I've got another Lancelot Armstrong for you to add to you collection.

On 25th May 1611, Lancelot Armstrong was part of an Eliott/Armstrong raid into Tynedale against the Robsons. Lancelot was the son of Francis Armstrong (the Standard Bearer) of Whithaugh.
Other Armstrong's mentioned on the raid were:-
Lancelot the young laird of Whithaugh, (b. 1580) and his brother Alexander of the Roane.

All together there were about 70 on the raid, 50 on horseback and the rest on foot. There may have been more Armstrong's on the raid which aren't mentioned in the list.


If the Lairdship of Whithaugh passed from father to son, the Lancelot Armstrong, the young Laird of Whithaugh mentioned in the raid would have been the father of Francis Armstrong of Whithaugh Castle and the great grandfather of John Armstrong, both who are mentioned on the family vault, who would have also been the same Lancelot and Francis Armstrong mentioned in the Whithaugh deeds in 1667.

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Offline castlebob

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Re: Whitaugh Armstrongs
« Reply #20 on: Thursday 23 June 11 16:30 BST (UK) »
Thanks for that, Rewcastle!
I'll make a note.
Cheers,
Bob
Armstrongs of Bedfordshire, England & Canonbie ,Scotland

Offline Rewcastle

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Re: Whitaugh Armstrongs
« Reply #21 on: Thursday 23 June 11 18:58 BST (UK) »
A couple of other interesting bits that i've found.

Roy Military Survey of Scotland, 1747-1755

If you click on the link, you will find a number of maps of Scotland. If you then click on 'Roy Military Survey of Scotland, 1747-1755' in the list, you will go to the next page, part way down the page click on Full screen map - 'Lowlands'. You will get a full screen map. On the 3rd strip from the right, near to the bottom, is the word 'Cumberland'.
If you zoom in just above the word 'land' in Cumberland, you should be in the Castleton area and be able to see Mangerton and 'Whithaugh Castle' ;) :D
(you can use the arrows on the left like google maps or the wheel of your mouse to zoom)


A couple of transcripts from the London Gazette.

7th March 1723
James Armstrong, late of Maingertown in the parish of Castletown in the Shire of Roxburgh, Scotland, Gent, is named in the bankruptcy of Edmund Camden.

29th October 1771.
James Armstrong, late of Logan house, and John Armstrong, late of Logan Mains in the Parish of Half Morton in North Britain, (Scotland), but now of the City of Carlisle in the County of Cumberland. Partners, Dealers and Chapmen were declarded bankrupts. All debts to be paid to Mr John Dixon, Attorney at Law, at Brampton in the County of Cumberland.


A couple of bits mentioning the Armstrong's, Elliot's and Whithaugh, from Two Centuries of Border Church Life. 1891.

It is well known that some years of scarcity occurred at the close of the 17th century; and to that period the Session records contain some interesting references.

On the 6th June, 1698, a meeting of heritors and elders was held, conform to intimation from the pulpit, to take into their serious consideration what farther provision could be made for the poor. There were present Mr. Duncan McArthur, bailie of the regality ; Francis Armstrong of Whithaugh ; John Elliot of Thorlishope, with the minister and elders.

It was agreed that Mr. McArthur should send for two bolls of corn, to be ground free of multure at Whithaugh Mill, and to be distributed to the poor by Adam Armstrong and John Beatty, elders, at the rate of a peck of meal to the most needful and half a peck to those less necessitous.

It was also recommended that the Session give a note under their hand to such of the poor as were able to travel about the parish, but that none others should be entertained "under the penalty imposed by acts of Council." The meal was ground and distributed according to this agreement.



In the same book Mr. Elliot writes in 1749 "I got three guineas from Sister Helen, that she got from John Armstrong, rowed in a bit paper to give me ;" and, again, "Received from my mother, which she received from John Armstrong, Whithaugh, to give me, three pounds." The worthy farmer had a large holding, but had difficulties not a few in keeping clear of debt, though he struggled manfully to be honest and honourable.

There are frequent intimations that " all accounts are cleared " between him and one or another of his customers, a consummation which is always noted with great apparent satisfaction. Often he adds the words, " We are free ;" and on the 27th June, 1750, having stated that all accounts with John Armstrong, in Whithaugh, were settled, he Adds, " And all money payd betwixt us both, so we are free till more bargains be made."





Offline castlebob

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Re: Whitaugh Armstrongs
« Reply #22 on: Thursday 23 June 11 19:40 BST (UK) »
A great find, Rew
Lots of useful info - a great piece of its time
Cheers
Bob
Armstrongs of Bedfordshire, England & Canonbie ,Scotland

Offline Mosside

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Re: Whitaugh Armstrongs
« Reply #23 on: Sunday 26 June 11 08:45 BST (UK) »
Quote
If the Lairdship of Whithaugh passed from father to son, the Lancelot Armstrong, the young Laird of Whithaugh mentioned in the raid would have been the father of Francis Armstrong of Whithaugh Castle and the great grandfather of John Armstrong, both who are mentioned on the family vault, who would have also been the same Lancelot and Francis Armstrong mentioned in the Whithaugh deeds in 1667.
I've been working on sorting out this family for sometime, with primary sources.
The Whithaugh pedigree gets confusing, as many sons of the 'old Laird of Whithaugh' Lance Armstrong, named a son Lance.
It is well documented that Sym the Laird of Whithaugh, Old Lance's father, was hanged in 1536.
Old Lance was succeeded by his son Symon, in 1597 or later, whose eldest son, named Lance (of the Flats, which is not too far away in Liddesdale), of course, was the heir apparent. However, it is not too clear what happened to this Lance, who was documented as born ca. 1580. He might have gone into exile, fled or faced another fate, as he had been into quite a bit of mischief before the Pacification. At age 16, he was helping his Dad and family at the prison break of Kinmont Willie, in Carlisle.
Simon was a pledge in 1597, then imprisoned in York Castle for 2 years 1598-1590. He broke his leg in a foiled escape attempt. It seems that he was hanged in 1607 by Dunbar.

Francis 'the Standard Bearer' was another son of old Lance. He had a son called Lance that was hanged by Lord William Howard 'Belted-Will' in 1612.

Archie of Whithaugh was another son of old Lance. He held land in Ewesdale, upstream of Glendovane, and is shown on an old map of 1590.
He might have had 4 sons who lived further downstream in Kirktoun, Ewesdale, that are named in the Privy Council Records in 1611, but I have not been able to find direct evidence. These have been previously mentioned, as cited by George MacDonald Fraser. Here is the full reference: RPC Scots vol. 9 (p. 711) Jedburgh October 30 1611:
"Andro A of Kirktoun beome actit and ableist that Thom, Jok, and Lancie A, his brethir, sall pas furth of the kingomes of Scotland and England betwuix and Pasche nixttocum, and sall not returne thairto agane without licence of the Commissionaris, under the pane of 2000 merks for ild contraventioun of thame or ony of thame." It seems that they did return, however, since a similar banishment to Ireland appears on 10 June 1620 in the Records of the Privy Council!

There was likely some disruption in the tenure, due to the death of Simon in 1607. Perhaps it shifted over to the line of Francis, his brother, if his sons were deemed unsuitable, or unavailable. The 1661 Charter cites Francis, who was born ca. 1630, based on his gravestone MI of 1721 which lists his age as 91. Who his father was is not clear to me. Any further information would be most appreciated.
John
Armstrongs of Canonbie & Debatable Land, Eskdale, Ewesdale, Liddesdale, Annandale, Cumberland

Offline Rewcastle

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Re: Whitaugh Armstrongs
« Reply #24 on: Tuesday 28 June 11 03:00 BST (UK) »
Thank you mosside, what you have said seems to have more or less what i have found.
One part which you mention that i haven't come across is the 1661 charter which cites Francis Armstrong 1630-1721.

This Francis Armstrong seems to be the same one mentioned on the family vault as Francis Armstrong of Whithaugh Castle, father of Christian Armstrong who married John Armstrong [No.1], grandfather of John Armstrong [No.2] and great-grandfather of John Armstrong [No.3], all mentioned on the family vault. John Armstrong [No.3] and his wife to be, were both witnesses to my 4th great-grandparents wedding in 1810. My 4th grandfather was also called John Armstrong [No.4] and his father was called John Armstrong [No.5].

In the will of John Armstrong [No.3] he mentions his son John Armstrong [No.6] who later died in London, and also two other relatives living in London, they were the sons of another John Armstrong [No.7].

In another will, that of Jane Armstrong, it mentions John Armstrong [No.2], as well as a son and two daughters and a sister of John Armstrong [No.8], of Bowholm, Canonbie, John Armstrong [No.9] of Timpanheck, Half Morton, and a John Armstrong [No.10] of Yorkshire, his father was from Kirtleton.

As you say, it does get confusing when so many had the same names. Sometimes feels like i'm going around in circles. ;D

Getting back to Francis Armstrong 1630-1721 of Whithaugh mentioned in the charter of 1661. I assume that he is the same Francis Armstrong mentioned in the 1667 deeds of Whithaugh, one of which mentions Francis Armstrong and also mentions the hereditary property of Lancelot Armstrong and the other deed which mentions Francis Armstrong also has another Armstrong, who's first name i cant make out.

Offline Mosside

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Re: Whitaugh Armstrongs
« Reply #25 on: Tuesday 28 June 11 07:47 BST (UK) »
Thanks very much, Rewcastle.
Sorry for the typo - my entry above should have read 1667 rather than 1661.
There is a link to this and other Whithaugh deeds/charters at this site:
http://www.welters-worldwide.com/Whithaugh/Whithaugh5.htm, as you are no doubt aware.
You have made great inroads into this family tree, esp in light of the many Johns!
Do you have a transcription of the the 1667 Deed?
Armstrongs of Canonbie & Debatable Land, Eskdale, Ewesdale, Liddesdale, Annandale, Cumberland

Offline Rewcastle

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Re: Whitaugh Armstrongs
« Reply #26 on: Tuesday 28 June 11 14:18 BST (UK) »
Sorry, but i haven't managed to crack the deeds yet, but i'm no expert. ??? I think i can make some of it out, which i've written below.


The first line mentions James Duke of Buccleugh and Anna Countess of Buccleugh and the charter.

2nd Line: mentions:- Francis (earl) of Bothwell, till when Lancelot of Whithaugh [carried on on 3rd line]
3rd line: [two words ?] our Francis Armstrong [word] of Whithaugh [4 words] ?Mangerton? the date ninth day, month October in the year of our lord.... (I think this seems to be refering to the date of the deed of 1586)

4th line: the said [aforesaid] Francis Armstrong [6 words] as hereditary property [1 word] possess [5 words]. onto line 5.

5th line. (followed from line 4) [2 words] till when lancelot['s] hereditary property et posseses [1 word] land....

6th line.. till when, Lancelot Armstrong, the said [aforementioned] Francis Armstrong [? word] [? word] our family of Buccleuch.


Some of the words mentioned in the deeds.

The word that looks like:- jnous, gnous, i think it is quous. translates to:- if any.
It could also be short for the word quousque which translates to:- until what time, till when, how long; or (quo usque) [how long? how far?].

noftra, noftrum >> nostra and nostrum translates to:- our

The word that looks like Pzdfatiio, the letter that looks 'z' is an 'r', the letter that looks like a 'd' is an 'a', 'e' or 'ea'. Thus the first part of the word which looks like 'pzd' would read 'pre'.
prefat translates as 'the aforementioned', prefatum translates as 'the said'. I would say that prefatiio would be in the same context as the others.


If the Lancelot mentioned in the deeds of 1667, is the same Lancelot born abt 1580, 20 years old while held in York. He would have been about 87 years old at the time of the deeds, and Francis 1630-1721, would have been 37 years old at the time of the deeds. This would mean if Lancelot was the father of Francis, he would have been 50 years old when Francis was born which wouldn't be impossible, but i wonder if there's a generation missing?