Author Topic: Detective needed!! 1851 Census - Sussex  (Read 1966 times)

Offline ex1066er

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Detective needed!! 1851 Census - Sussex
« on: Monday 18 August 08 01:25 BST (UK) »
Hello,

In 2005 a kind person on RootsChat found a relative of mine in the 1851 Census. Since then I've had access to the Ancestry version of this census through my local library, but have never been able to locate the entry myself.

Could someone please check to see if they can find the image for the following household:

Eastbourne, Sussex:
HO 107 1637 F130 (is reference I was given)

John Betteridge  Hd widower 71  b Gls Stoke
Ellen                   dau laundress 30 b Eastbourne

I have still not been able to trace the baptism of John Betteridge. He died before 1861, so the 1851 census reference is my only clue to his place of birth.

If you find the image, could you please give me the full reference (including page no), and also check the image to see if the transcription "Gls Stoke" is correct. Could it be something else?

I've assumed Gls Stoke means  Gloucestershire, and "Stoke" is possibly Stow-in-the-Wold (I've been told that locals just refer to the village as "Stow"), and a Cotswold accent in Sussex in 1851 could easily transcribe "Stow" to "Stoke".

Fun stuff this detective work!  Anyone got other suggestions?

John
 
Gambrill Reed Taylor Selway Carveth Degan McGrath

Offline winston

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Re: Detective needed!! 1851 Census - Sussex
« Reply #1 on: Monday 18 August 08 07:13 BST (UK) »
HI John


This is how that family are transcribed on Ancestry

John B McCage 71 bn Glesholonra Steve
Ellen      ""        50 bn

With a lodger as well


Here the full Ref


HO107; Piece: 1637; Folio: 162; Page: 34


The 130 you were given refers to the Household Schedule number so does not help at all in finding the people you were after.


Wendy
Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Blakeley in Batley West Yorks
Turner in Hanging Heaton West Yorkshire
Dann last known area Soothill West Yorks
Hirst in Hanging heaton W Yorks
Moss in Morley and Leeds
Parker in Morley W Yorks
Parker in Hull E Yorks
Tilburns in Morley W Yorks

Offline Valda

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Re: Detective needed!! 1851 Census - Sussex
« Reply #2 on: Monday 18 August 08 07:58 BST (UK) »
The IGI has this baptism in Stow on the Wold

JOHN
Christening:  18 DEC 1781   Stow On The Wold, Gloucester

so presumably either a not legible surname and parents' names, damage to the register at that point or the register was just not completed. You could have the register checked to see whether there is more information that can be extracted or enquire whether the Bishops Transcripts have survived for Stow and see what information they contain about this baptism.

If you are relying on the IGI for your information on whether John's baptism is in the register it is always worth having the register (or another index) checked because the IGI has mistakes like any index.

Regards

Valda
 
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline sillgen

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Re: Detective needed!! 1851 Census - Sussex
« Reply #3 on: Monday 18 August 08 08:47 BST (UK) »
Isn't there a Stone in Gloucestershire?    That is what it looks like to me.  Awful writing though.
Andrea

Offline Willow 4873

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Re: Detective needed!! 1851 Census - Sussex
« Reply #4 on: Monday 18 August 08 09:54 BST (UK) »
Hiya John

It looks like Stone to me as well and there is a Stone in Gloucestershire

Willow x
Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and is for academic and non-commercial research purposes only<br /><br />Researching: Hilton (Wolverhampton & Tamworth) , Simkiss & Mears (Wolverhampton & ?) Bowkett & Nash (Ledbury & Wolverhampton) Knight & Beard (Gloucestershire), Colley (Tibberton) Hoggins (Willenhall) Jones (Bilston), Harris & Bourne (Droitwich) Matthews (Wolverhampton & High Offley) Partridge (Monmouthshire)<br /><br /

Offline Valda

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Re: Detective needed!! 1851 Census - Sussex
« Reply #5 on: Monday 18 August 08 18:05 BST (UK) »
Both Stone and Stow-in-the–Wold baptismal registers are covered by the IGI for the period of interest circa 1780.

Stow 1610-1812 
Stone 1578-1812

There are Betteridge baptisms showing on the IGI in Stow beginning in 1785 for John and Elizabeth Betteridge and 1788 for Robert and Elizabeth Betteridge. I can’t find marriages on the IGI for either of these couples, but then Stow marriages are not covered by the IGI. Neither have a son called John on the IGI baptised in Stow. Though a Mormon church member submission 'guesses' at a birth in Stow for a John Betteridge.

John Betteridge
Birth:  1785   Of, Stow On The Wold, Gloucester
Father:  Robert Betteridge 
Mother:  Elizabeth     
Spouse:  Mary Cary 
Marriage:  18 APR 1809  (according to an extracted entry in Wotton Under Edge)   
 
There are no Betteridge baptisms in Stone.

On the 1851 census there are Betteridges living in Stow who were born there about the same time as John in Eastbourne. William Bettridge aged 60 and Thomas Betridge aged 63. There are other Betteridges born Stow.

There are no Betteridges born Stone from any period.

I have access to a burial index recording burials in Stone and Stow from 1813 onwards. No Betteridges in Stone but quite a few in Stow. For instance

1823 John aged 63 birth year circa 1760
1829 Elizabeth aged 69 birth year circa 1760
1833 Elizabeth aged 80 birth year circa 1753
1851 Robert aged 83 birth year circa 1768

If John’s age on the 1851 census in Eastbourne is correct, 71 (and his age at burial or on his death registration would help confirm it) then with a birth year of circa 1780 John of Stow or either of the two Elizabeths would be old enough to be his parents.


Gloucestershire Record Office online database shows no instances of Betteridges in Stone but it does show some interesting records for Stow.

http://www.gloucestershire.gov.uk/index.cfm?ArticleID=1335

Year Surname Forename Gender Parish Reference   Occupation Catalog
1823 bettridge john    U stow-on-the-wold 1823/ 19    shopkeeper Wills 1801 - 1858

and an earlier will

1808 bettridge robert U stow-on-the-wold 1808/ 80 carpenter Wills 1801 - 1858
                     

There is also a Prerogative Court of Canterbury will held by The National Archives for Bettridge in Stow but again nothing in Stone.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/

Will of Elizabeth Bettridge, Widow of Stow on the Wold , Gloucestershire 24 October 1829   PROB 11/1761
 
and the Death Duty entry for Robert’s will

Description Administration letter of Robert Betteridge of Stow, Gloucestershire. Proved in the Court of Gloucester.
Date   June 04 1808
Catalogue reference IR 26/346 
Dept   Records of the Boards of Stamps, Taxes, Excise, Stamps and Taxes, and Inland Revenue
Series   Board of Inland Revenue and predecessors: Estate Duty Office and predecessors: Registers of Legacy Duty, Succession Duty and Estate Duty

The National Archives research guide gives details on the sort of information that might be found in Death Duty registers.

Death Duty Records, From 1796

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=107

‘They can give the name of the deceased, with address and last occupation, the date of the will, the place and date of probate, the names, addresses and occupations of the executors, and details of estates, legacies, trustees, legatees, annuities and the duty paid. They can also give the date of death, and information about the people who received bequests (beneficiaries), or who were the next-of-kin, such as exact relationship to the deceased. Tax was not payable on bequests to people within a closely defined family circle, and as a result the family relationship was often noted in the registers.’

There are no wills at TNA at Stone for Betteridges.

None of this is conclusive for a birth for John Betteridge of Eastbourne in Stow (as Andrea says the census enumerator's handwriting on the 1851 census isn't easy to decipher), but of the two places, Stow or Stone, it certainly seems to prioritise the search to the possible Stow records first.


Regards

Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline ex1066er

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Re: Detective needed!! 1851 Census - Sussex
« Reply #6 on: Monday 18 August 08 21:35 BST (UK) »
Wow, what great detectives ! Thank you so much Valda (x2), winston, Willow & sillgen.

It will take me a while to absorb and check all the clues and links provided, so I'll report back with my findings and let you know the progress.

Ancestry's transcribing of the 1851 Census blows my mind away - no wonder I couldn't find John Betteridge - I can't wait to have a look at the image at my local library tomorrow.

Again, thanks for ALL the information. Rootschatters are the tops!

John 
Gambrill Reed Taylor Selway Carveth Degan McGrath

Offline winston

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Re: Detective needed!! 1851 Census - Sussex
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 19 August 08 06:18 BST (UK) »
HI John

I know as of this message its John early years and parentage your probably after but do you have a wife for your John Betteridge?


Wendy
Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Blakeley in Batley West Yorks
Turner in Hanging Heaton West Yorkshire
Dann last known area Soothill West Yorks
Hirst in Hanging heaton W Yorks
Moss in Morley and Leeds
Parker in Morley W Yorks
Parker in Hull E Yorks
Tilburns in Morley W Yorks

Offline Valda

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Re: Detective needed!! 1851 Census - Sussex
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 19 August 08 07:08 BST (UK) »
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/AKEHURST/2006-06/1150500442

but I can't see a burial for her, to give a more exact age and therefore year of birth.


Regards


Valda

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk