Obtaining Asylum Records

[LizzieW]

Embargoed records cannot be browsed regardless of ID and death certificates being proffered, because they contain records of hundreds of other patients

That was something on the lines of what I was told.  I didn't believe a word of it.  How can one person's medical records contain the records of hundreds of other patients.

In any case, if you use Scotlandspeople and look up a death registration as I have, and many others have, you can see the records of the other people listed, giving the cause of death and their parents, and other details.  It made interesting reading, but as I had never heard of the other people listed, I didn't follow up the information.

Lizzie

[mudge]

The Stafford CC Records Office made available the relevant Asylum Records Book tied open (with tape) at the appropriate page, placed upon a book stand on a table in front staff members, who ensured that no other pages were looked at. There were definetely hundreds of other peoples' records, as it was a very large thick ledger. So they were correct in saying that Lizzie
They were most efficient, friendly, and cooperative.
Initially they sought out the required records, and when found they gave the option of getting someone to photocopy and sending it, at a standard cost, or  arranging for a personal visit to get the information
mudge  

[LizzieW]

Mudge

Like someone else said, it's the staff at the relevant archives offices who make up their own rules and Stafford staff, seem very helpful.

Presumably when you say there were hundreds of other peoples' records, you mean their names and personal details, rather than their actual medical records.  Or are you saying all the medical records have been filed in the same record book?  Having worked in hospitals, and seen the hundreds of folders there are, it seems impossible to have them all put into just one book.

Lizzie

[Pilgarlic]

In regards to my Great Grandmother at Chartham Asylum -

The Chief Archivist at The East Kent Archives said it would take 'easily up to an hour' for them to find her transfer or discharge records from the Asylum at a cost of £28. I will take up this offer.

Pilgarlic

[acorna]

Hi Nic, the records for Stanley Royd are held by the West Yorkshire Archive Service, search for 'Health Records' on their website for useful info. However as your relative died relatively recently, I think you might find it difficult to access his medical records unless you were his next of kin. You could also try contacting the PALS dept at the local hospital (Pinderfields) or Primary Care Trust for advice, they may still hold the patient records as the hospital only closed fairly recently. Try these:
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1990/Ukpga_19900023_en_1.htm
http://www.archives.wyjs.org.uk/downloads/Collections%20Guide%207.pdf
Hope it helps!

[monkeymagik]

Hi all, its really interesting to hear your different experiences when trying to obtain asylum records.
 I had a feeling that it would be difficult.

The main thing that goes against me like you say acorna is that I am not next of kin. My Uncle has closer living relatives one of which is my Gran, & given the great lengths that my family must have gone to over the years in order to "cover up" what had really happened to him, I have absolutely no chance of her ever agreeing to help me try to obtain the records or telling me what really happened!( If she knew). However Lizzie your success obtaining your more recent G.Uncles records, & pilgarlics luck with the East Kent archivist, make me think its defiantly worth while trying.

Would I be right to assume that on the records you have seen there is a next of kin recorded & in the event of death that person would have been informed? therefore someone in my family "must" have known about his actual death & still chose not to say anything?

Its a sad state of affairs to think that even in the 80s & 90s  Mental health issues were still so taboo that even family's did not discuss them,  especially when you consider why some of these poor people were origionally committed, and why they were kept in, Perfect example Lizzie's G.Uncle!

Thanks for the links acorna, you have given me the perfect place to start looking!
Mudge, before I make contact with the trust, I will have a quick read up on the freedom of info act so I am fully armed for battle

Be interested to hear if any of you have come up against resistance from living relatives, during your research into this sort of thing.

Anybody wish they had left it alone? let sleeping dogs lie ? i.e found out something they wish they hadn't or caused problems with family?

Nic

[Windsor87]

I've thought about getting my great grandmother's records. She died in Aberdeen Royal Mental Hospital in October 1934. I don't know if the research procedure with the 100 year rule applies in Scotland.

I'll maybe get round to looking into it one day.

[LizzieW]

Would I be right to assume that on the records you have seen there is a next of kin recorded & in the event of death that person would have been informed?

Nic - There is no next of kin shown on either set of records I have received, however,  I'm not altogether sure I have been sent the full set of either ancestor. 

I always knew my g.uncle, (a single man) had been in the asylum as my mum told me that she had visited him, when a child, with her mother (g.uncle's sister) and that she had been very worried about going but when she got there, he seemed perfectly normal to her and was doing the gardening.  As he didn't die until the 1980s, I have no idea whether anyone visited him.  I would guess that my gran might have done, but she died in 1949.  Whether any of his other siblings visited him, I don't know, but I do know that he outlived them all.  I don't know who would be classed as his next of kin, my mum and some of her siblings (i.e. his nephews and nieces) were still alive at the time of his death.  I'm not sure about any of her cousins.  Mum did talk about them, but I don't remember ever meeting any of them.

His death was registered by a member of the asylum staff.  By the 1980s, the asylum was called a hospital, so without prior knowledge you might think from the death certificate that he just died in a hospital from a heart complaint. 

My g.g.uncle is a different matter.  It was only when I got the set of records for my g.uncle and found under family history, a line stating that "his uncle died here", that I did some research to whittle down which of about a dozen uncles it could be.  Again there is no next of kin, but his home address is given.  Also his death was registered by a member of the asylum staff.  His 3rd wife and children were still alive at the time, so I presume someone notified them.  On this death certificate, it gives the place of death as X asylum. He was only in the asylum from 17 May 1902 until his death  on 18 August 1902.  His illness was related to syphilis, so I supposed today he would be treated with antibiotics and carried on living a normal life.  I do know where this g.g.uncle is buried and hopefully next time I'm in the area, I will be able to visit the grave and see if it mentions his family.

What the records did provide was a photograph of both men which was very interesting as they looked very like each other, and unlike any other members of the family.  Looking at their eyes, I would guess they both also suffered from over-active thyroid, which if left untreated can cause mental illness.

Lizzie

[Windsor87]

What the records did provide was a photograph of both men which was very interesting as they looked very like each other, and unlike any other members of the family.  Looking at their eyes, I would guess they both also suffered from over-active thyroid, which if left untreated can cause mental illness.

Lizzie

Thyrotoxicosis - that was given as the main cause of death of my great grandmother.
http://www.medinfo.co.uk/conditions/thyrotoxicosis.html